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Helpful ReplyHot!Will Test E cycle have long-term impact on neurotransmitters, as nandrolone appears to?

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CaliforniaPrune
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2018/07/24 21:46:44 (permalink)
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Will Test E cycle have long-term impact on neurotransmitters, as nandrolone appears to?

Hey there,
 
I’ve posted these queries on a couple of other forums, but am really keen to get as many opinions as possible. Apologies in advance for the long ass post!
 
After a lot of thought, I’ve decided to take the plunge and begin my first cycle. This will entail 10-12 weeks of Test E at 400mg per week (200mg every E3.5D) and 12.5mg aromasin E3.5D (adjusted up or down depending first on symptoms and then on mid-cycle blood work).
 
I’m due to start tomorrow, but am getting cold feet as I have a history of mental health issues. I’ve been on sertraline (150mg) for a couple of years, and recently added the mood stabiliser lamotrigine as I have depersonalization/derealization, and also because my GP suspects I may have bipolar disorder too.
 
So my questions nearly all revolve around mental health sides on cycle and during PCT, particularly with regards to how serotonin may be affected. Any help with these queries would be massively appreciated:
https://dopinglinkki.fi/en/info-bank/doping-substances/anabolic-steroids-cause-long-standing-changes-brain
  1. The study in the link above, performed on rats, shows that nandrolone has long-lasting effects on brain levels of serotonin and dopamine. "It took about five times the administration duration period for the dopamine system to return to its initial level before administration. Serotonin system recovery lasted, in turn, six times the duration of the administration period."
Would you expect the brain changes observed with nandrolone to be similar to that of testosterone, given that all anabolic steroids are derivatives of test? The thought that it would take around a year for my dopamine levels to return to normal and circa 15 months for serotonin to return to baseline after a 12 week cycle is kind of terrifying! I was hoping this long-term change could be attributed to nandrolone being much more anabolic/androgenic than test, but then I checked the compound list in the Reddit steroid wiki, and found that nandrolone is actually much less androgenic than test (37 vs 100) and only a little more anabolic (125 vs 100).
 
The following studies also show altered levels of neurotransmitters with anabolic steroid use, however the first two links relate to juveniles/adolescents, where the brain would still be developing, so hopefully wouldn’t be applicable to a 27 year old like myself:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1430421
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/08/020809071423.htm
https://onlinelibrary.wil...1601-183X.2008.00458.x
 
2. Dopamine has been observed to be tightly bound with test, whereas estrogen is more associated with serotonin. When using aromasin during cycle, I’ll always be leaning towards crashing my estrogen if in doubt, rather than risking elevated levels, to avoid physical symptoms such as gyno. If I crash my estrogen, how much would this be expected to crash serotonin? Given that I’m on an SSRI, which only keeps serotonin floating around for longer by blocking re-uptake rather than actually creating new serotonin, my concern is that crashing estrogen may cause my SSRI to be less effective, as there won’t be as much initial serotonin to work with.
 
3. Estrogen crashing aside, wouldn’t test itself likely make me more dopamine dominant and serotonin depleted? I really want to avoid this not just to make sure my SSRI is still effective, but also because I believe going by my mental health symptoms that dopamine might be too high already (which my GP mentioned when he raised the possibility of bipolar).
 
4. Anecdotally speaking, it appears a lot of people find test gives them far fewer mental / physical sides than other steroids such as nandrolone and trenbolone. Is this something you would agree or disagree with, going by your personal experience on cycle?
 
5. I’ve decided to go with toremifene and enclomiphene citrate (which contains only the “good” clomid isomer) for PCT, to try to make mental sides as minimal as possible. Hopefully this helps, but if not, is PCT really as hellish as people say with regards to mental (and physical) struggles? And how long does this tend to last, roughly?
 
6. Finally, a non-mental health related question! I was on TRT for 5 weeks in 2011, when I was 19, and then did a 5 week cycle of 5mg LGD-4033 between April - June this year (meant to be 8 weeks but had to cut it short due to sides). From a physical standpoint, would you consider this upcoming cycle to be my 1st, 2nd, or 3rd real cycle? Wasn’t sure if the first counted as it was only at prescription levels (5mg androgel per day) whereas the second was only a SARM. I only ask because I know that, generally speaking, the more cycles you do, the more chance there is of not regaining natural T levels. I should note at this point that I found out the cause of my low T levels a few years after attempting TRT, and they’re now very solid (ranging from 600-700 in my last few blood tests).
 
7. I understand you can keep a substantial amount of your gains from a test cycle as long as you haven’t reached your genetic potential. I only want to do one cycle (I know everyone says this!) and then quit, so could I regain say 70% of my gains many years down the line if I don’t reach my limit, or is only doing one cycle a complete waste of time?
 
Thanks again to anyone who can help with these questions!
post edited by CaliforniaPrune - 2018/07/24 21:48:38
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Uriel
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Re: Will Test E cycle have long-term impact on neurotransmitters, as nandrolone appears to 2018/07/24 22:17:16 (permalink)
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I doubt anyone will have any answers to those questions. People barely understand how androgens work on your muscles and sex organs let alone brain chemistry, I doubt there are any proper psychiatrists researching the effects of anabolic steroids. That first article makes some very curious and bold claims but I don't see any of the studies they are supposedly taken from, and looking at the site it's coming from I'm very suspicious of a bias.
 
What I can tell you is that:
1) People are not mice or turtles, and it's well known that sex hormones cause very profound and immediately noticeable psychological effects on many animals the way they don't on humans (like a woman doesn't exactly start dripping from her vagina and presenting herself to anything that resembles a male after she takes an estrogen pill, the way a dog does for instance)
2) It's fairly well known that androgens (mainly testosterone and DHT) cause permanent changes in a developing child but once they've taken place giving ever increasing does of them doesn't cause further changes, also removing them altogether doesn't reverse them (for instance if you don't have adequate HPTA function your sex organs don't develop, but if you do they develop into their adult size and function and no further, taking even very large amounts of testosterone makes no difference)
3) Nandrolone is well known for its extremely potent inhibitory effect on the HPTA (and it does not entirely replace the effects of testosterone or DHT on a number of tissues), so those findings on the effects of nandrolone, if true at all, might be caused by a complete lack of test/DHT rather that by nandrolone directly, and it is also known that nandrolone can leave an otherwise healthy adult man with a suppressed HPTA for many months after using it
4) There's lots of people out there using lots of testosterone and they're not going around picking fights because they're lacking in neurotransmitters and aggressive for it
5) You're probably better off using tamoxifen to prevent gyno on cycle rather than messing around with your estrogen if you don't know what you're doing, I've personally never had that dreaded depression some people talk about when they reduce their estrogen too much, I've done cycles when my estrogen levels were pretty much nil but when in doubt I'd avoid messing with more hormones and just keep it simple
 
A cycle is worth it if you work to keep your gains and/or you simply have a goal to meet and it helps you achieve it even if you don't want to be big forever. Nothing in life is permanent after all so try to make it last but don't obsess over it because you'll grow old weak and fat eventually and no amount of drugs will ever reverse it or keep it from happening. I think it's an experience worth going through for anyone serious about lifting because if nothing else you learn from it and can separate truth from fiction, there's too many people out there talking their asses off about steroids and what they do to you without the slightest clue of what they're talking about. You may find that because of what others (who've never done it ) have told you you have an exaggerated idea of what to expect both in terms of positives and negatives. It won't make you look like an IFBB pro or bench press 500lbs, nor will you probably really feel all that different once the initial placebo effect wears off. You're just yourself, but you makes gains more quickly, you eat and sweat more and your blood pressure and cholesterol may be on the less desirable side.
post edited by Uriel - 2018/07/24 22:33:02
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ANIMAL
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Re: Will Test E cycle have long-term impact on neurotransmitters, as nandrolone appears to 2018/07/24 22:32:00 (permalink)
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If you’re worrying about it now, it will only cause further worry and anxiety when on cycle

If you think you are ready.. Take your test, be positive about it.. enjoy the cycle coz test is great! Enjoy the gym and the gains and the confidence , standard PCT take it one day at a time.

For me, test was the best thing I ever did for my mental health.

But if your doctor thinks you have bipolar, be cautious and think hard and maybe even talk to him or find a doctor that understands gear (very hard).
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CaliforniaPrune
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Re: Will Test E cycle have long-term impact on neurotransmitters, as nandrolone appears to 2018/08/09 10:07:37 (permalink)
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Hey guys,
 
Thank you both for the replies, much appreciated. After giving it a lot of thought, the lure became too great, and I did my first pin on Sunday (second pin just now!)
 
My first pin went as smoothly as can be, but this one wasn't so great, despite following the same instructions. The issues were:
 
1. When drawing the test e and pulling back to 1ml, the plunger kept moving forward again and landing on around 0.5ml. I tried pulling the plunger back even further, yet it kept settling back on the 0.5ml spot. In the end I had to draw way back in order to get the 1ml I needed as it kept moving forward. What do the think the issue was here? The only things I can think of that might cause this are (a) the plunger wasn't pushed all the way forward to begin with, or (b) the syringe wasn't completely upside down when I started drawing.
I did inject 1ml of air into the vial before drawing, so pressure wasn't an issue here. The needle was also in the test e the whole time.
 
2. It took 3 attempts to pin properly this time. Rather than wasting test after the first 2 attempts, I injected it back into the vial with the same drawing needle and drew again (I hadn't actually put the needle in myself before injecting back into the vial of course!) Is there a problem with (a) injecting test back into the vial and (b) re-using the drawing needle? I figured I could get away with re-using the drawing needle on the test e, though you shouldn't do so with the injecting needle.
 
3. I got kind of aggravated by the issues and wanted to speed things up, so after one attempted failed pin where I had actually already placed the needle in my thigh, I re-used the same injecting needle rather than uncapping and replacing. I appreciate this is poor practice, however luckily the needle didn't break off or anything upon 2nd injection, and there's no PIP or infection now - do you think that means I will have got away with it on this occasion?
 
Thank you very much!
 
post edited by CaliforniaPrune - 2018/08/09 10:22:36
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Re: Will Test E cycle have long-term impact on neurotransmitters, as nandrolone appears to 2018/08/09 11:10:11 (permalink)☄ Helpfulby CaliforniaPrune 2018/08/09 21:50:40
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1 Draw 1ml of air into the syringe, inject this into the vial before you draw the med, if you don't then you're causing vacuum making it hard to withdraw anything more than 1/2 a ml.
 
2 Don't bother replacing any med into the vial, just draw back on the plunger a wee bit, change the pin then inject again.
 
3 If you've followed a good injection protocol ie wipe vial rubber and injection site with an alcoholic swob, change pin after drawing etc and your meds are good it's unlikely you'll get an infection.
PIP takes a day or two to materialise and can last as long as a week, usually after pinning a new site for the first few times but occasionally it just happens, all part of the process 👍
 
 

Fortes Fortuna Adiuvat
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CaliforniaPrune
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Re: Will Test E cycle have long-term impact on neurotransmitters, as nandrolone appears to 2018/08/09 21:55:57 (permalink)
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Thank you for the reply bud.
 
I remembered to draw air and inject this into the vial beforehand - maybe I just didn't do it effectively this time for some reason.
 
So by drawing out test e and then putting it back in, do you think I would have 'ruined' the test at all? I don't think my hand made any contact with the needle before putting it back in, but either way would you say the vial is safe to keep using or would you chuck that vial?
 
Glad to know that I shouldn't face any issues due to using the same injection needle after taking it out my thigh and moving it to a different part of the thigh - will make 100% sure that I change needle if this happens again in the future!
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