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cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle...

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Robert
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2004/02/16 18:53:08 (permalink)
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cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle...

firstly, CC your original thread was good and i want to re-ignite the debate. [james deleted original thread by accident when deleting a double post of mine]

so, what i want to know is, from anyone who supports the idea, why do any activity, especially aerobic training [cv etc etc] before ingesting food in the morning??? and i would like to hear some actual science behind the answers, with references if possible.

ding ding....
rob
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    snow-munki
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/16 19:42:30 (permalink)
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    Hi,

    very much a noob here as you might know, but from what i hear is that if you don't eat before then exercise,

    the bidy will have to burn of fat as there isn't anything else it can do, as if u eat first it just be burning of that.

    but then i heard today that if you don't eat it will burn of your muscle instead...

    not sure myself really :p
    #2
    GoldenArrow
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/16 20:07:21 (permalink)
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    Body is in a (theoretical) state of needing energy, so there will be less to burn before fat is used...I would take whey before training however to minimise muscle loss if doing this...but then you get into the theory that the whey would be used to replenish glycogen....thus negating the whole point of it! Argh...
    #3
    AUTIGER
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/16 21:17:47 (permalink)
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    I wrote my nutrition professor about this. hopefully he will reply shortly.
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    dirtyvest
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/16 21:19:07 (permalink)
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    For BBers etc concerned with the preservation of muscle tissue then whey in water is wise prior to cardio to help limit/prevent catabolism. For Joe (or Jane) Bloggs looking to 'lose weight' then there would be larger loses on an empty stomache altho some of this would be loss of lean tissue as well as fat.... in my understanding altho sorry no refs.

    Dirty
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    AUTIGER
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/16 23:18:58 (permalink)
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    "I don't think it matters much as far as fat burning is concerned.
    Eventhough, blood glucose concentrations are being supported by
    gluconeogensis (because of the overnight fast, liver glycogen levels
    are low), there is still plenty of glycogen in the skeletal muscle.
    This will supply the glucose for exercise. Serum fatty acids may
    already be increased because of the fast, but exercise will quickly
    cause epinephrine release, which will cause the release of fatty
    acids. The higher the intensity of the exercise, the greater the
    proportion of the energy that is coming from glucose. High intensity
    exercise uses glucose almost exclusively, however, you cannot
    maintain this for very long. Very little protein is used for energy
    except during long exercises, when proteins are being used to make
    glucose (gluconeogenesis). I think if you exercise in the fasted
    state, you are more likely to increase your breakdown of proteins,
    than to increase your utilization of fats."

    by Dr. Doug White of Auburn University
    #6
    chaos31
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/17 05:59:10 (permalink)
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    So in english that means, wake up, protien shake, run, shower, eat eat eat???
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    Robert
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/17 13:12:05 (permalink)
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    yes, but i myself would eat some carbs/sip a elecrolyte+carbs drink before+during exersize.

    i am glad to see the good Dr giving sound advice.

    EXERSIZING BEFORE EATING IS BAD.

    for anyone interested in strength, size or muscluar endurance catabolism is very, very bad. eating some carbs will cause a rise in the levels of insulin, this is the most powerful anabolic hormone in the body, and very anti-catabolic which will obviously preserve muscle much better than just whey alone. it is true that higher insulin levels hinder the mobilization of fatty acids and thier being used for energy instead of carbs, but not to a massive extent. also, GA is right, the whey you drink may well be used as fuel, but that is better than using your hard earned lean tissue [oragns and muscles] for feul. lastly, using fats soley as energy production is dangerous in the sense that it produces higer levels of ketone bodies in the blood, ketosis. not good.

    IME and IMO, it is better to lose fat/weight by looking at the bigger picture, using the correct form of training and monitering your total daily kcal intake is far more effective than simply hoping for the best by exersizing in a fasted state and using outdated and flawed theory.

    rob

    P.S.

    on a sadder note, today i offically said goodbye to my beloved 8pack, scince i started bulking at thebeginning of this year, my fat levels rose and i now have a 6pack, only when tensed :(
    my fiance pointed this out this morning, slag.
    #8
    Bob J1976
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/17 14:20:55 (permalink)
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    dump her mate!
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    Robert
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/17 14:26:54 (permalink)
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    no need, i just pointed out she has got fat ankles!! [she hasn't, but it took her 15minutes of vigorous, close inspection over breakfast to realise this. much to my amusement]
    rob
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    Bob J1976
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/17 14:44:01 (permalink)
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    Braver man than saying that to a bird! (whether it be in jest or otherwise)
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    Robert
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/17 14:54:02 (permalink)
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    i wear the pants, and she knows it. ;)
    rob
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    TheMasterPlan
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/23 12:55:35 (permalink)
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    why would taking protein before doing cardio before breakfast minimise muscle loss?

    Isnt it right that the body can use protein for calories just like anything else, so if you take whey before a morning run, wouldnt the body just burn it for energy?

    Ive always wondered about this. Does anyone have studies showing how taking whey on an empty stomach will prevent muscle loss when doing cardio?

    Its not something i do, Im just curious.
    #13
    Robert
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/23 15:03:46 (permalink)
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    exactly, whey IS used to some extent for energy, INSTEAD of your hard earned muscle.
    rob
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    CHTHONIC
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/24 13:41:48 (permalink)
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    Well, if i'm gonna do cardio, i'll try and do it at 9-10am after consuming:

    A portion of whey isolate with water and 2 x Xenadrine RFA-1 which act as an anti-catabolic and also give ya more energy (supposedly from fat).

    I'm progressing with weights during training sessions, so this method is clearly working for me.

    Alex
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    TheMasterPlan
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/24 14:11:57 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Robert

    exactly, whey IS used to some extent for energy, INSTEAD of your hard earned muscle.
    rob



    well if whey is taken just to provide an energy alternative for the body to prevent muscle-burning, why take whey? why not some glucose or fat or something? glucose is easily absorbed and (i imagine, im not a biochemist) probably a better source of energy, its also cheaper.
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    CHTHONIC
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/24 16:07:56 (permalink)
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    quote:
    To further enhance the fat-burning effects of these workouts (refering to HIIT) do them in the morning, in a fasted state. Scientific Studies indicate that fat is burned much faster - up to 300 percent faster - when you exercise in the morning as opposed to doing the same exercise in the afternoon. (By the way, if your primary goal is lose body fat, consider doing your weight training workouts in the morning on an empty stomach, too.)


    - Body for Life page 65 (author: Bill Phillips)

    [url]www.bodyforlife.com[/url]

    for further info
    #17
    AUTIGER
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/24 16:18:52 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Mintaka

    quote:
    Originally posted by Robert

    exactly, whey IS used to some extent for energy, INSTEAD of your hard earned muscle.
    rob



    well if whey is taken just to provide an energy alternative for the body to prevent muscle-burning, why take whey? why not some glucose or fat or something? glucose is easily absorbed and (i imagine, im not a biochemist) probably a better source of energy, its also cheaper.




    when doing cardio your body burns fat, carbs, and proteins. by taking whey before hand you are preventing it from burning your muscle and it is only burning fats and carbs. with this logic i would think that if you take fats before morning cardio it would prevent the body from burning the fats that it would be.
    #18
    Yib
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/24 22:11:45 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by CHTHONIC

    quote:
    To further enhance the fat-burning effects of these workouts (refering to HIIT) do them in the morning, in a fasted state. Scientific Studies indicate that fat is burned much faster - up to 300 percent faster - when you exercise in the morning as opposed to doing the same exercise in the afternoon. (By the way, if your primary goal is lose body fat, consider doing your weight training workouts in the morning on an empty stomach, too.)


    - Body for Life page 65 (author: Bill Phillips)

    [url]www.bodyforlife.com[/url]

    for further info


    i dont think i would have the energy to do either in the morning.....not only that, but im not very flexible in the morning and always end up pulling something, even in a warmup....
    #19
    Robert
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    RE: cardio BEFORE breakfast, wise words or waffle... 2004/02/24 22:32:01 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Mintaka

    quote:
    Originally posted by Robert

    exactly, whey IS used to some extent for energy, INSTEAD of your hard earned muscle.
    rob



    well if whey is taken just to provide an energy alternative for the body to prevent muscle-burning, why take whey? why not some glucose or fat or something? glucose is easily absorbed and (i imagine, im not a biochemist) probably a better source of energy, its also cheaper.




    my point exactly. but i would rather someon take whey than nothing.
    rob
    #20
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