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chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way

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Robert
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2004/02/24 00:04:13 (permalink)
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chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way

and why is that? i am planning to make a post on why **i think** shoulders are more important than the chest, so this is to test the water. why is the chest prioritised over the shoulders by most?

so my question

WHAT BODY PART DO YOU TRAIN FIRST IN YOUR SPLIT ON THE DAY WHEN YOUR SHOULDERS GET TRAINED OUT OF THOSE IN THE SELECTION BELOW?

it would also be helpful if you would post a short paragrph, or even sentence on why that is that you prioritise the chosen body part over the sholders.

many thanks
rob
#1

36 Replies Related Threads

    PikeKing
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/24 00:09:16 (permalink)
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    Most people train chest first as the shoulders are heavily recruited. Training shoulders first will limit your chest strength.
    #2
    Robert
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/24 00:36:53 (permalink)
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    when i train my chest firt, the level that those exersizes recruit my triceps has a negative effect on my shoulder pressing ability. the reverse i have found, is not true.

    example:

    DIPS: 5x5 @ 85kg [COMBINED WEIGHT OF ME+15KG db] for me is not a problem on its own
    PUSH PRESS: 5x5 @ 55kg for me is not a problem on its own

    if i put the shoulder exersize first i can still dip that
    if i put chest exersize firat, i have no chance of that push press as tris are alredy fcuked.

    mybe its just me, but scince i have started puttine shoulders before chest, my OHstrength went up IMMEDIATLY and dipping strengtth was hardly affected. thoughts?
    rob
    #3
    Robert
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/24 00:37:58 (permalink)
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    i also feel that shoulders being a more complex and delicate joint need more attention than some beach muscle>chest.
    #4
    Robert
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/24 00:40:09 (permalink)
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    and so my ideal "press day" [not that i do them mnd you, i have a full body routine], would look like this: [in order of importance accros and down]

    handstand pressups/push press/DB standing press
    weighted pressups/dips/DB bench
    close grip bench

    rob
    #5
    help2001
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/24 11:53:27 (permalink)
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    Well im into strength just like yourself rob but i dont train bodyparts as such, i train my body as a system.

    My routine is loosely based on a combination of westside and Canadian ascending descending training.
    An example of a limit strength week would be

    Mon:
    bench press up to 1 rep at 95%ish // ME pressing movement
    close grip bench 3x3 // accessory movement

    Wed:
    low box squat up to 1 rep at 95%ish //ME lower body movement
    Good morning 3x3 //accessory movement

    Fri:
    DE bench 5x2
    3x5 chins/row/shrug

    Sun:
    DE squat 5x2
    clean+jerk 5x1 with 80% max


    However a hypertrophy week could be like this

    Mon:
    dips 3x6-8
    OH press 3x6-8
    tricep extension 3x6-8

    Wed:
    3x6 oly squat/front squat
    3x10 hyperextension

    Fri:
    deadlifts 4 singles
    pullups 3x6-8
    row/shrug 2x6-8


    So i suppose on days where im pushing my shoulders get used first at the same time as my chest and triceps
    #6
    GTM
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/24 12:13:49 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Robert

    i also feel that shoulders being a more complex and delicate joint need more attention than some beach muscle>chest.



    Robert,

    Post retracted, as I was quite clearly completely wide of the mark. I take it all back and apolgise most sincerely. However, the bit below still stands:


    As for the original question. Do what suits you best. If doing OH press first has no impact on your dipping and allows you to progress more on you OH lifts.. then do it that way. It's as simple as that.

    GTM
    #7
    Robert
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/24 16:25:31 (permalink)
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    edited :)
    rob
    #8
    dirtyvest
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/24 17:24:18 (permalink)
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    I train delts and tris, but hit delts first.... however, I might switch to prioritise my triceps as I feel they are in need of work and my delts respond well regardless.

    As for the last couple of posts... chill boys, big hugs!
    #9
    marko
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/24 17:27:50 (permalink)
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    Currently my chest is lagging big time, so i just thought it would be best to start with chest then shol and then tri's. Also if you look at the routines forum, its always written in that order (tony stark 3 day split, my routine). Not sure if thats intensional or not.
    #10
    JayavarmanVII
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/24 17:52:56 (permalink)
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    At the mo I do:

    DL
    Front Squat
    Mil Press
    Rows
    Dips

    Back and legs should always come first IMO. I put rows between mil press and dips just to allow me to go a bit heavier on the dips.

    TUFF
    #11
    GTM
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/24 18:31:01 (permalink)
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    Robert,

    I've edited my previous post.

    I think if one does shoulders first you are tiring out muscles that are required in practically every chest exersize. To do so, makes no sense to me as the weakest part in the chest exersize will not be able to support the weight that your chest can manage. BUT, OH presses may not be using the front delts that heavily. It would depend on your exact form I would say. So it's possible that if you are pressing very vertically then your dip strength will not suffer all that greatly.. as with dips it is nearly all front delts that take the brunt of the exersize, shoulders wise.

    GTM
    #12
    Robert
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/24 21:30:10 (permalink)
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    GTM,

    you have, [unlike too many others on this forum and indeed, on the net in general] shown the attitude and maturity that i would expect and mt deserves. i try to maintain the same, and will do the same for you. i have edited my above post so the thread is now soley on topic and has a chilled atmosphere. thanks mate. appreciate it.

    as for the point in question:

    i am actually inclined to agree on some points and have a couple more to support your side of the disscussion;

    #1 like you said, if you find that shoulders first detracts too much benifit from your main chest exersize, then do chest first
    #2 if you need to devote particulr focus to your chest, if it is weak in terms of strength, or asthetically, then do chest first
    #3 if your concern is powerlifting for competition, then do chest first

    however,

    #1 you may find that you are seriosly jepardising gains onyour shoulders by doing chest first, both in terms of strength and size, so do shoulders first
    #2 if you train for functional strength, or *most sports, then do shoulders first
    #3 if your shoulders are the weak link in the chain [it shoud be oyu tri's] then do shoulders first until it is no longer an issue
    #4 if you are returning from a shoulder injury, or are concerned with your lack of OHstrength, then do shouldrs first
    #5 if your concern is oyur arms are too small, [bearing in mind the size of your arms will be limited drastically by your shoulders, not chest] then do shoulders first
    *few sports require a stong chest without the need for a very stong set of shoulders, i can think of none at this point.

    or

    #6 if your lie me and prioritizing your shoulders don't take neough out of your dipping/bench strength, but the reverse is not true, then do shoulders first
    thoughts??
    rob
    #13
    carv4130
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/25 05:41:14 (permalink)
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    It's subjective. Look at your physique and the function you are striving for and prioritize accordingly. I generally train the larger more demanding bodypart first and the synergists in the same session. If I find that a bodypart needs prioritization then I adapt as needed.
    #14
    CHTHONIC
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/25 09:31:24 (permalink)
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    Being fairly new to the game of Bodybuilding (6 months training) i've mainly been following what i've read/been told by more experienced members. I've been doing chest before shoulders i'm afraid to say.

    I can see the argument for doing shoulders first, and might try it on my next 12 week routine cycle. Is the following statement truth or myth, because i've heard it stated a few times.

    "If you tire out the triceps before you train your chest, it makes your chest do more of the work" (with is obviously beneficial)

    Thanks, Alex
    #15
    GTM
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/25 09:49:12 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Robert

    GTM,

    #1 you may find that you are seriosly jepardising gains onyour shoulders by doing chest first, both in terms of strength and size, so do shoulders first
    #2 if you train for functional strength, or *most sports, then do shoulders first
    #3 if your shoulders are the weak link in the chain [it shoud be oyu tri's] then do shoulders first until it is no longer an issue
    #4 if you are returning from a shoulder injury, or are concerned with your lack of OHstrength, then do shouldrs first
    #5 if your concern is oyur arms are too small, [bearing in mind the size of your arms will be limited drastically by your shoulders, not chest] then do shoulders first
    *few sports require a stong chest without the need for a very stong set of shoulders, i can think of none at this point.

    or

    #6 if your lie me and prioritizing your shoulders don't take neough out of your dipping/bench strength, but the reverse is not true, then do shoulders first
    thoughts??
    rob




    I'm not pro/against either. I believe that people should do the training that suits their personal goals. It's true that should you find a particular body part is holding back your progress trying to develop another part. Then it would make sense to improve that part until you can get back to working the part you want to. However, given the way the body works, there will always be a weak link and taking the road of working on the weak links in an effort to improve performance in other lifts could (and I stress could) lead you to end up doing just isolation exersizes or overspecialising. The issue will always be one of exersize choice and order selection, because taken to extremes you could argue that every exersize restricts your ability to perform at your best at a different exersize.

    At the end of the day weight training, for whatever goals. Will always be a matter of experience, finding what best suits your own body and goals. As peoples bodies/goals etc change through life you'll find that your training will change to match.

    GTM
    #16
    symzie
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/25 10:43:00 (permalink)
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    I changed my routine slightly, I do full body workout but I do 2 workouts that are alternated which means I only do 1 upper body push per workout so I don't have to prioritise either chest or shoulders

    1/
    squats
    dips
    chins

    then 2 - 5 days later

    2/
    deadlift
    BB rows
    Military press

    #17
    TheMasterPlan
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/02/25 15:16:35 (permalink)
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    I do them before squats now, i prefer it this way than working them after chest exercises. I dont think squatting beforehand affects it too badly (at least not at the light weights im military pressing at the moment).
    #18
    Daari
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/03/01 18:57:41 (permalink)
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    I train Chest/shoulders and tri's in the same session, i start off with flat barbell bench press, as this is the exercise i need the most energy for
    #19
    GoldenArrow
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    RE: chest, shoulders, triceps... thats always the way 2004/03/01 19:42:23 (permalink)
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    Funny this, as I just did military's first this week as I felt like getting some bigger weights up...I think IIRC that my bench was slightly up (as it should be) , but I added 7.5k on military by swapping them round...I think I might leave it like this and see what happens.
    #20
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