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eccentric muscle contractions

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ad19
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2004/02/21 22:34:24 (permalink)
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eccentric muscle contractions

am i not right in saying that muscles have the potential to grow bigger through eccentric muscle work not concentric? so why have i not heard of anyone doing them? i have read that muscles can grow 5% bigger or faster through eccentric work. therefore im thinking of including it in my program (frankie's 5x5), any thoughts?
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    Robert
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    RE: eccentric muscle contractions 2004/02/21 23:27:11 (permalink)
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    every time you squat down, let the bar down afetr a curl, or put the bar down after a deadlift, thatseccentric motion. unless your an oly lifter, you always do the same amount of eccentric and concentric. i cannot see the benifit of prioritizing eccentric over concentric.
    rob
    #2
    ad19
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    RE: eccentric muscle contractions 2004/02/22 13:12:51 (permalink)
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    it is argued that eccentric work:
    gives greater neural adaption
    a more important force output produced during maximal eccentric contraction as you can use a higher external load
    higher level of stress per motor unit in eccentric work as less motor units are recruited. Thus each of the recruited motor units recieves much greater stimulation. further more, as the nervous system seems to recruit fewer motor neurons there is larger optotunity for improvement.
    there is some evidence that suggests maximal eccentric movements will promote the use of fast twitch fibres, which are more responsive to growth and strengthening.
    most microtrauma incurred during training is a result of the eccentric action.
    #3
    pugboysi
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    RE: eccentric muscle contractions 2004/02/22 19:24:40 (permalink)
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    i use eccentrics once a week for each body part,
    ecc flys for chest
    negative curls for bi's etc
    i find it gives an awesome burn
    #4
    acooper
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    RE: eccentric muscle contractions 2004/02/23 14:08:28 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Robert

    every time you squat down, let the bar down afetr a curl, or put the bar down after a deadlift, thatseccentric motion. unless your an oly lifter, you always do the same amount of eccentric and concentric. i cannot see the benifit of prioritizing eccentric over concentric.
    rob



    The reason for emphasizing eccentrics is because your eccentric strength normally is around 120-130% your concentric strength and therefore never receives its potential stimulation because of the lack of concentric strength in conventional lifts.
    #5
    ad19
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    RE: eccentric muscle contractions 2004/02/23 15:09:45 (permalink)
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    so why does no one ever seem to point this out in their routines?
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    Robert
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    RE: eccentric muscle contractions 2004/02/23 15:23:00 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by acooper

    quote:
    Originally posted by Robert

    every time you squat down, let the bar down afetr a curl, or put the bar down after a deadlift, thatseccentric motion. unless your an oly lifter, you always do the same amount of eccentric and concentric. i cannot see the benifit of prioritizing eccentric over concentric.
    rob



    The reason for emphasizing eccentrics is because your eccentric strength normally is around 120-130% your concentric strength and therefore never receives its potential stimulation because of the lack of concentric strength in conventional lifts.



    what does this mean then for us?

    do we add 30% to our 1RM and do some negatives?

    my point of view is this

    #1 you do not have a set value for concentric strength ion the first place, it differs depending on the angle of flexion/extension that your limb is at, at any one time. so for example, about 1/3 the way through the bicep curl, you can apply 100% of the maximal force you can apply to the bar, at the start of the movement, that figure is nearer 65%.

    #2 there is no point in trying to maintain eccentric strength @ 120-130% of your concentric strength, as you have to use all your concentric strength to get the bar up in the first place.

    #3 i would of thought that it would balence out naturally. if the untrained person can apply 130% eccentric force and 100% concentric force on any particular lift, what are the affects of not training eccentric movements [like most if not all of us do]? will they eventually balence out to have a 1:1 ratio, **or will my body naturally adapt and up the eccentric strength accordingly, without the need for negatives??**

    **blah blah** = my opinion

    rob
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    acooper
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    RE: eccentric muscle contractions 2004/02/23 17:00:56 (permalink)
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    quote:
    what does this mean then for us?

    do we add 30% to our 1RM and do some negatives?


    That is one way of training your eccentrics if you wanted to increase strength. But we're talking training for mass here so it is easier to use slow eccentrics.

    A lot of people neglect eccentrics just cos they are difficult to do effectivly, due to the surplus eccentric strength over concentric.
    #8
    Robert
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    RE: eccentric muscle contractions 2004/02/23 18:18:57 (permalink)
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    why do the worlds elite powerlifters not do it then?
    rob
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    ad19
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    RE: eccentric muscle contractions 2004/02/23 20:41:13 (permalink)
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    because in no powerlifting competitions do athletes do pure eccentric movements.
    i think im rite in saying the eccentric power/strength cannot be transfered to concentric.
    i would have thouhgt powerlifters would MAINLY train competition specific movements.
    #10
    acooper
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    RE: eccentric muscle contractions 2004/02/23 22:21:01 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Robert

    why do the worlds elite powerlifters not do it then?
    rob



    Don't know about powerlifters but oly lifters and athletes do.
    #11
    Robert
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    RE: eccentric muscle contractions 2004/02/23 23:06:29 (permalink)
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    thats interesting, and something i never knew [obviously :)]

    but seriously, would you reccomend it to a person after hypetrophy [as i presume ad19 is] as a better way to train than conventional lifting, as it will seriously affect recovery times?
    rob
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    acooper
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    RE: eccentric muscle contractions 2004/02/23 23:12:13 (permalink)
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    Yeah i'd recommend it for bbing more so. More muscle stress = more growth = longer recovery. But as bbers are not after strength the longer recovery is not an issue cos they don't need to train frequently. With a 3day split/week recovery is adequate for cns recovery. Localised motor stress at the muscles would require additional rec. but they are only being trained once/week so this is enough.
    #13
    Robert
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    RE: eccentric muscle contractions 2004/02/23 23:30:38 (permalink)
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    again, interesting. maybe mens health got it right then. i will research this further on the net and in books, don't plan to use it myself mind you.
    rob
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    ad19
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    RE: eccentric muscle contractions 2004/02/24 16:27:16 (permalink)
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    as a queiry, why is this rob?
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    Robert
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    RE: eccentric muscle contractions 2004/02/24 16:32:04 (permalink)
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    because i belive that no matter who says somehting on mt, if i cannot find anything on the internet/books to back it up i disgard it. and i cannot see how it would benifit my training goals.
    rob
    #16
    ad19
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    RE: eccentric muscle contractions 2004/02/24 19:48:12 (permalink)
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    i got my info from an e-book a mate got me, didnt make it up! does noone else do eccentrics?!!
    #17
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