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epistane and phera plex stack?

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Basement
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2008/05/13 22:47:50 (permalink)

epistane and phera plex stack?

Would it be worth running these two together?
I want to try epi and I've read it works well with wet compounds.

I was under the impression Phera-plex was a wet compound (could be wrong) and I've tried it twice before.

If it is a good idea to run them together how should I stack them? In parallel or one at a time?


As for PCT I can get hold of nolva but I also have some Inhibit-E left over, would it be worth running this along side nolva?

Cheers

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    ed1coupe
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/13 23:01:37 (permalink)
    if you've got nolva forget that other **** haha

    usually guys like to run the wet compound first followed by the epi. SD then epi, for example, is a popular one right now (and one i'll likely do soon)

    there's a thread a page or 2 back on this mate, have a look
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    Basement
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/13 23:09:49 (permalink)
    Yeah I imagine nolva sh1ts on inhibit-e it's just I have some left over. guess what I'm asking is would it do me any harm running two anti-oestrogens together?



    In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King.

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    Daari
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/13 23:41:31 (permalink)
    you need nolva or clomid

    Ruuning both simultaneously will be rather supressive, and an OTC will not cut the mustard so to speak
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    Basement
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/13 23:59:53 (permalink)
    fair enough, however what exactly do you mean by suppressive? Low libido, oestrogen rebound?

    What would the effects be of taking the Inhibit during cycle as I feel I may be prone to gyno? Perhaps just whilst on the Phera since epi has anti-oest properties.



    In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King.

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    Daari
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/14 00:11:12 (permalink)
    however what exactly do you mean by suppressive? Low libido, oestrogen rebound?

    supressive to natural testosterone levels

    What would the effects be of taking the Inhibit during cycle as I feel I may be prone to gyno? Perhaps just whilst on the Phera since epi has anti-oest properties.


    Inhibit-E is essentially ATD. It's an AI (aromatize inhibitor). It should therefore limit water retention. Phera-plex is a progestin (debatable), so any gyno you may get from Phera-plex will most likely be progestin induced so an AI will do little. Up the amount of vit b6 in your diet, as B6 controls prolactic levels


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    Basement
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/14 00:25:12 (permalink)
    ok, just had to google some of that!

    what about taking a very small amount of nolva during the phera say 5-10mg per day/two days. Would this effect gains.

    also when people talk of having nolva on hand incase of gyno flare up, do they mean if it comes they quit their cycle and start on the nolva pct, or continue with the cycle and just take some nolva.

    cheers, I'm learning a lot here

    In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King.

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    ed1coupe
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/14 00:31:37 (permalink)
    what makes you think you're gyno-prone, duder?

    imho on this particular cycle I'd wait until pct to run nolva UNLESS you get signs during cycle. a low dose of nolva late in cycle may be applicable but not something i'd do.
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    Daari
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/14 00:53:07 (permalink)
    what about taking a very small amount of nolva during the phera say 5-10mg per day/two days


    Phera-plex is a progestin (debatable), so any gyno you may get from Phera-plex will most likely be progestin induced, nolva will do little

    also when people talk of having nolva on hand incase of gyno flare up, do they mean if it comes they quit their cycle and start on the nolva pct, or continue with the cycle and just take some nolva.


    It depends upon the user really. Some spot signs of gyno really early, and jump on the nolva while continuing their cycle. Others stop their cycle there and then and begin a modifed nolva PCT protocol


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    Basement
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/14 00:53:29 (permalink)
    last time my nipples puffed up but it was towards the end so I just finished a few days early and started pct.
    I think I'm prone as I seem to have a bit already, think its left over from puberty (im 24 now), my nipples stand out when warm and I seem to hold more fat there.

    just thought if i ran epi second and my nipples puffed up during phera i'd have to abort the cycle.

    if they do should i quit the cycle or continue with phera an take some nolva, also any idea how much?

    the reason im interested in epi is because i've read it can help gyno



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    Daari
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/14 00:56:25 (permalink)
    I think I'm prone as I seem to have a bit already, think its left over from puberty (im 24 now), my nipples stand out when warm and I seem to hold more fat there.


    Known as pseudo-gyno. It is linked with high bodyfat. Lose fat and the effects will decrease

    if they do should i quit the cycle or continue with phera an take some nolva, also any idea how much?


    Phera-plex is a progestin (debatable), so any gyno you may get from Phera-plex will most likely be progestin induced, nolva will do little



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    Daari
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/14 01:33:20 (permalink)
    Yes, as adipose tissue has a high aromatase activity(mesenchymal cells)
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    stavross
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/14 06:39:29 (permalink)
    I wouldn't start taking extra meds on cycle "just in case" you get gyno. keep plenty of nolva handy and if you get gyno on the phera switch to epi and nolva till it goes then continue epi to end of cycle.


    I'd have to dissagree a little about "pseudo gyno"... just because it comes through puberty doesn't mean it's not real gyno. i think most men with gyno got it this way and it's just as real as steroid induced gyno. Although granted some lads just have extra fat that looks like gyno but isnt really.
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    JingPuerh
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/14 07:41:19 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: stavross

    I wouldn't start taking extra meds on cycle "just in case" you get gyno. keep plenty of nolva handy and if you get gyno on the phera switch to epi and nolva till it goes then continue epi to end of cycle.


    I'd have to dissagree a little about "pseudo gyno"... just because it comes through puberty doesn't mean it's not real gyno. i think most men with gyno got it this way and it's just as real as steroid induced gyno. Although granted some lads just have extra fat that looks like gyno but isnt really.


    Nah mate you're getting confused over the terminology:
    1. Gyno from Steroids is glandular material forming under the nipples - broad on by andogen use.
    2. Pubertal gyno is still glandular but caused by the increased steroid (androgen) production at puberty.
    3. Pseudogyno is a condition that LOOKS like the other two but doesn't have a glandular component - it's just fat over the pectoral muscles (think Moobs on an obese person). It decodes into English as false-gynocomastia. Whereas gynocomastia decodes roughly into woman breast!

    Therefore, pseudo-gyno is False woman breasts but true gyno really is the formation of female breast tissue in men.

    This is slightly complicated by the fact that fat cells have a fairly high aromatase activity, locally. So, if you have a lot of fat in the pectoral area it would increase your risk of getting true-gyno as more test->estrogen conversion events are happening in the tissues local to the nipple.

    Clear now dude?

    fah_gedda_boudit: "At the end of the day I don't think it really matters what it tastes like. If the liquid stuff is what you can get, well ger'it down yer neck & cowboy up"
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    firest0rm
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/14 08:59:49 (permalink)
    I like both these compounds, although I wouldn't say Pheraplex was a "wet" compound. It's far dryer than Superdrol, at least for me, yet with the same explosion on gains and strength. My preference of a crossover cycle would still be recommended here, yet as Pheraplex isn't as harsh as Superdrol then it can be ran for an extra week.

    Weeks 1-4 Phera 30/30/30/20
    Weeks 4-8 Epi 20/30/30/30/30

    Pheraplex can be used both as a cutting or bulking compound, but for a cycle like this I would recommend upping maintenance calories during the first 3 weeks, while lowering cardio, and having a short bulk, then use the 4th week to cut calories back down to maintenance and let your body adjust, then 5th week and beyond up cardio again and drop calories below maintenance.
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    kasabian19
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/14 18:38:01 (permalink)
    Phera-plex is a progestin (debatable),


    How is phera a progestin?

    Phera Plex is DMT. Desoxymethyltestosterone, a derivative of testosterone. NOT Desoxymethylprogesterone.

    Unless you're referring to the fact that any 17-aa compound is progestinic to some degree???
    post edited by kasabian19 - 2008/05/14 18:45:15
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    Daari
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/14 20:21:39 (permalink)
    Although it's not technically a progestin, it exhibits many progestinic properties. Hence why I said it was debatable
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    kasabian19
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/14 20:31:03 (permalink)
    Which progenistic properties inparticular?
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    kasabian19
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/14 20:41:43 (permalink)
    Characterisation of the pharmacological profile of desoxymethyltestosterone (Madol), a steroid misused for doping.Diel P, Friedel A, Geyer H, Kamber M, Laudenbach-Leschowsky U, Schänzer W, Thevis M, Vollmer G, Zierau O.
    Center for Preventive Doping Research, Institute of Cardiovascular Research and Sports Medicine, Department of Molecular and Cellular Sports Medicine, German Sports University Cologne, 50927 Cologne, Germany. diel@dshs-koeln.de

    Desoxymethyltestosterone (DMT), also known as Madol, is a steroid recently identified to be misused as a doping agent. Since, the knowledge of functions of this substance is rather limited, it was our aim to characterise the pharmacological profile of DMT and to identify potential adverse side effects. DMT was synthesised, its purity was confirmed and its biological activity was tested. The potency of Madol (DMT) to transactivate androgen receptor (AR) dependent reporter gene expression was two times lower as compared to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Receptor binding tests demonstrate that DMT binds with high selectivity to the AR, binding to the progesterone receptor (PR) was low. In vivo experiments in orchiectomised rats demonstrated that treatment with DMT resulted only in a stimulation of the weight of the levator ani muscle; the prostate and seminal vesicle weights remained unaffected. Like testosterone, administration of DMT resulted in a stimulation of IGF-1 and myostatin mRNA expression in the gastrocnemius muscle. In the prostate proliferation was stimulated by TP (testosteronepropionate), but remained unaffected by DMT. Remarkably, treatment with DMT, in contrast to TP, resulted in a significant increase of the heart weight. In the liver, DMT slightly stimulates the expression of the tyrosine aminotransferase gene (TAT). Our results demonstrate that DMT is a potent AR agonist with an anabolic activity. Besides the levator ani weight, DMT also modulates the gene expression in the musculus gastrocnemius. The observed stimulation of TAT expression in the liver and the significant increase of the heart weight after DMT treatment can be taken as an indication for side effects. Summarizing these data it is obvious that DMT is a powerful anabolic steroid with selective androgen receptor modulators (SARM) like properties and some indications for toxic side effects. Therefore, there is a need for a strict control of a possible misuse.

    Trenbolone on the other hand has a binding affinity to the progesterone receptor that is actually greater than progesterone itself, with 60% of the strenght of progesterone. Deca also binds highly to the PR, and exerts around 20% strength of progesterone.

    Phera is DMT which is an androstane. So IMO its not debatable whether its a progestin. Its simply an androstane that may exhibit some small progenistic activity.
    post edited by kasabian19 - 2008/05/14 20:45:49
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    Daari
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    RE: epistane and phera plex stack? 2008/05/14 20:54:05 (permalink)
    binding to the progesterone receptor (PR) was low


    In rats this may be the case. In humans, anecdotal feedback suggests otherwise. As an example, I know of two people who have gotten gyno with it (progestin induced gyno)

    IIRC the 2-ene isomer exhibits a greater affinity for the progesterone receptor
    #20
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