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how long before deciding course hasn't worked?

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choz
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2005/08/04 10:49:19 (permalink)
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how long before deciding course hasn't worked?

I have just finished 3 weeks of my course, I started at:
tren 3 x 75mg wk, dbol 50mg ed and winstrol 50mg ed with 40mg tamoxifen ed.

After only gaining 3 pounds in the first 2 weeks I upped the dbol to 70mg but haven't gained any more.

I have reduced my cardio but don't want to cut it out completely, have a sedentary job and am eating as much as I can stand to (not crap, loads of protein and low GI carbs, plus EFAs)

Just wondering how much other people have gained at this stage on a similar course. I don't want to fill up with loads of water but I expected about 10lbs at least by now.
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13 Replies Related Threads

    lilguy43
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    RE: how long before deciding course hasn't worked? 2005/08/04 11:03:56 (permalink)
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    whoa I don't think it is going to very easy on your liver at all at 70mg ed of dbol. all you should need is about 30mg!!! and if the winstrol is a oral also you are really outting your liver in harms way!!! Just my opinion from what I have read. I have used dbol and I would say something isn't right after three weeks.
    #2
    Fina
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    RE: how long before deciding course hasn't worked? 2005/08/04 11:23:32 (permalink)
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    wow, for a start massive bump what lilguy said regarding your liver!!!!

    You are running 3 potent orals all at once at very high doses!!

    Secondly regarding your lack of gains it's hardly suprising when the bulking drug you are using (dbol) is being negated by the winny and nolva.

    For a start, drop the nolva you don't need it unless you have gyno?
    lower the dbol to at least 50mg even that is ott and re-evaluate.

    To be honest I don't like the cycle much as it is some test would work nicely in there if you can get some?
    #3
    Baloo
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    RE: how long before deciding course hasn't worked? 2005/08/04 12:14:12 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: choz

    I have just finished 3 weeks of my course, I started at:
    tren 3 x 75mg wk, dbol 50mg ed and winstrol 50mg ed with 40mg tamoxifen ed.


    Ouch, guess you don't need a fully functional liver then?
    #4
    susthead
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    RE: how long before deciding course hasn't worked? 2005/08/04 12:27:17 (permalink)
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    70MG dbol not that bad alot of competing guys take up to 150mg per day. , sounds like some of your gear may not be the real mcoy which make tren you using and which winny tabs/jab? and what dbol ?


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    #5
    Baloo
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    RE: how long before deciding course hasn't worked? 2005/08/04 12:37:10 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: susthead

    70MG dbol not that bad alot of competing guys take up to 150mg per day. , sounds like some of your gear may not be the real mcoy which make tren you using and which winny tabs/jab? and what dbol ?


    But combined with the winny and nolva
    #6
    susthead
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    RE: how long before deciding course hasn't worked? 2005/08/04 13:00:08 (permalink)
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    not really mate dianabol is not as toxic as everyone seems to think . like i said competeing bodybuilders take meny orals for 12-16 weeks at a time., most of this stuff you read in books like war etc.. is a lot of hype. dianabol is toxic but its not like your gonna take 10dbol and 10winny 2 nolva a day roll over then dia ,

    i know meny guys who use the oral winny and dbol cycle it works very well.

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    #7
    ihawk
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    RE: how long before deciding course hasn't worked? 2005/08/04 13:04:04 (permalink)
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    dito what the other guys say its a poorly thought out cycle and many much cheaper simpler cycles would have yielded greater results.

    i would suggest either some or all your gear is fake, or/and you are not eating enough, or you are not training efficiently. if you are sure the gear is real start eating more simple as that, d-bol at 70mg ed is unecessary, 50mg is a good compromise between gains and sides.

    150mg ed d-bol as taken by the pros apparantly is a dose with no consideration towards health only towards max gains, of course if you are not a pro it is a ridiculous amount to take.
    #8
    khany
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    RE: how long before deciding course hasn't worked? 2005/08/04 18:13:48 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: susthead

    not really mate dianabol is not as toxic as everyone seems to think . like i said competeing bodybuilders take meny orals for 12-16 weeks at a time., most of this stuff you read in books like war etc.. is a lot of hype. dianabol is toxic but its not like your gonna take 10dbol and 10winny 2 nolva a day roll over then dia ,

    i know meny guys who use the oral winny and dbol cycle it works very well.


    \
    totaly agree with you mate
    #9
    Baywatch
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    RE: how long before deciding course hasn't worked? 2005/08/04 21:08:57 (permalink)
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    The whole liver toxic thing is well overhyped IMO.

    I have run pretty much all orals at high dosages and my liver vaules always come back fine. The only time I had trouble was when using alot of Nolva!!

    p.s - Drol is excluded from this list as yes, that is very toxic
    #10
    ihawk
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    RE: how long before deciding course hasn't worked? 2005/08/04 21:41:17 (permalink)
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    possible liver problems are only part of the sides at silly doses though, water retention and resulting high blood pressure are common at these higher doses. i also think its unwise to say (infer that 150mg of d-bol) wont have an effect on your liver as imo it would especially over 12 weeks. imo the effect on the liver is exagerated but shouldnt be ignored especially at higher doses.
    #11
    susthead
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    RE: how long before deciding course hasn't worked? 2005/08/05 11:18:04 (permalink)
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    i think everone should forget nolva its old out of date rubbish that is a thing of the past

    get with the program! take adex or aromasin!.

    much better on the liver and blood lipids.

    going back to the original cycle i agree a much simpler cycle would be better ie 3 susts a week .


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    #12
    bob__
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    RE: how long before deciding course hasn't worked? 2005/08/05 15:47:35 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: susthead

    i think everone should forget nolva its old out of date rubbish that is a thing of the past

    get with the program! take adex or aromasin!.

    much better on the liver and blood lipids.


    Really? I was under the impression that nolvadex had beneficial effects on blood lipids, whereas arimidex and aromasin had negative effects (due to the reduction in oestrogen which has a protective effect).

    As far as I know, due to the differences in mechanisms of action between tamoxifen (a selective estrogen receptor modulator) and the aromatase inhibitors, tamoxifen can be more suitable for use in a number of circumstances.
    #13
    Wyllis
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    RE: how long before deciding course hasn't worked? 2005/08/05 17:42:59 (permalink)
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    For starters everyone is right. 70mg (14 tabs) of dbol per day is too much. You should have only maybe maxed out at 50mg and some would say that is too much for someone of your experience with AS.

    At this point you should have noticed some water retention mate at least. If you have only gained 3lbs, tell us what your strength levels are like now compared to before you started. They should have started going up steadily by now. If neither of these things are happening then you are probably taking dog worming tabs........sorry dude.


    "Forced reps are best done by yourself": Franco Columbo

    "If you said eating **** would give me muscles, I would eat it!"; Arnold Schwartzennegger
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