Visit 1 Rep Max Clothing - Heavy duty, high quality and stylish gym wear for the hard training athlete. Clothing designed with bodybuilders and weightlifters in mind!

is icing really the solution to inflammation?

Author
billymead2011
Olympian Member
  • Total Posts : 952
  • Reward points: 3011
  • Joined: 2011/09/08 19:08:05
  • Location: essex
  • Status: offline
2014/10/01 11:28:59 (permalink)

is icing really the solution to inflammation?


 
i understand its a long video but kelly starrett raises some very logical reasoning, my question is what is your take on this? 
traditionally always been told to ice but is that inhibiting the lymphatic recovery process ? would be interested to hear  some opinions on this topic, many thanks in advance
regards, billy.

My youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/billymead2011
 
Gym PR's: SQUAT- 200X2 BENCH 155X1 DEADLIFT 240X1 
Meet Pr's: SQUAT-200X1 BENCH 140X1 DEADLIFT 225X1
Journal http://www.muscletalk.co....ht-class-m5202445.aspx
#1

7 Replies Related Threads

    jack5r
    Pro-Member
    • Total Posts : 10024
    • Reward points: 8882
    • Joined: 2007/07/26 23:49:52
    • Status: offline
    Re: is icing really the solution to inflammation? 2014/10/01 12:45:17 (permalink)
    A very convincing argument but I'm still skeptical myself.

    First of all we are not perfect healing machines. To suggest we are sort of puts all healthcare out of business.

    There is definately some debate around icing though, with the vast majority of professionals still using it. Following what everyone else does isn't necessarily the right thing to do though. We should always be open to new ideas.

    I really like Kelly's info, but at the same time you have to see that they're pushing a product here. If we are such good healing machines then why do they need to create this compression product in the first place? For starters elevation has been shown to be more effective than compression in reducing swelling.

    Currently, we are taught that icing should take place during the inflammatory phase (0-72 hours) of an injury. No 'healing' as such takes place during this phase. It is a time to set up the right environment for the healing phases which follow, whilst preventing further damage. It's to be used in acute injuries and generally avoided in chronic injuries. It's purpose is to reduce bleeding and swelling which can be damaging to surrounding tissue, preventing movement of the joint, which is crucial for optimal recovery. Reducing pain through ice treatment also allows movement of the joint. Pain prevents movement. No one suggests using ice all day long with no movement. I still think ice has it's place when used correctly.

    We use POLICE now. Protect, optimal loading, ice, compression, elevation. Rather than 'rest', which as highlighted in the vid is misleading.

    I think as with most things it's all about finding the right balance. In this vid they talk about inflammation being necessary for healing which is undeniably true, but he seems to suggest using ice removes this phase completely... Which is not true.. We have to ask, how much inflammation is necessary for optimal healing? And when does too much become damaging? Ice and nsaid's are not used to remove inflammation completely. They are used to reduce it. Finding the perfect balance is what seems to be unknown especially when every injury is unique in severity.

    Good vid though, cheers for sharing.

    Body Weight - 83kg 
    Bench - 145kg
    Squat - 190kg
    Clean & Jerk - 129kg
    Snatch - 98kg  
     
    #2
    billymead2011
    Olympian Member
    • Total Posts : 952
    • Reward points: 3011
    • Joined: 2011/09/08 19:08:05
    • Location: essex
    • Status: offline
    Re: is icing really the solution to inflammation? 2014/10/01 21:36:18 (permalink)
     i like the point you make about our bodies not being perfect in terms of recovery and how that is a foundation of their case. with most things the truth is usually in between the two extremes.
    thanks for your input

    My youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/billymead2011
     
    Gym PR's: SQUAT- 200X2 BENCH 155X1 DEADLIFT 240X1 
    Meet Pr's: SQUAT-200X1 BENCH 140X1 DEADLIFT 225X1
    Journal http://www.muscletalk.co....ht-class-m5202445.aspx
    #3
    dirtyvest
    Moderator
    • Total Posts : 48323
    • Reward points: 13409
    • Joined: 2002/04/11 22:19:49
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: is icing really the solution to inflammation? 2014/10/01 21:44:04 (permalink)
    Inflammation I guess can be looked at a bit like allergic reactions.... your body doesn't know for sure what it has to do so it sends everything. It is this bombardment of reactions and system over-reaction than causes the excess swelling. Obviously over time the feedback signals correct this. Ice is the way we can intervene and limit the swelling in the meantime

    Limits, like fear, are often just an illusion: MJ 12/9/09
    My journal
    #4
    billymead2011
    Olympian Member
    • Total Posts : 952
    • Reward points: 3011
    • Joined: 2011/09/08 19:08:05
    • Location: essex
    • Status: offline
    Re: is icing really the solution to inflammation? 2014/10/01 21:55:03 (permalink)
    nice analogy, i guess the question would be does the athlete know when and how much to intervene in any particular situation, i understand the body may over react, which would suggest icing would be beneficial, but at what point would icing be detrimental? 
     
    inflammation has both negative and positive impacts, most positive to the tissue, however some negative to us psychologically and as an athlete inconvenient
     
    • Pain (due to chemicals released by damaged cells).
    • Swelling or Edema (due to an influx of fluid into the damaged region).
    • Redness (due to vasodilatation- the widening of blood vessels and bleeding in the joint or structure).
    • Heat (due to an increase in blood flow to the area).
    • Loss of function (due to increased swelling and pain).
    as you can see, increase blood flow is a positive, ( removal of waste product addition of nutrient dense cells)
    some other are a negative (pain, loss of function) but both is used as a deterrent to further injury and protection
     
     
     
     

    My youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/billymead2011
     
    Gym PR's: SQUAT- 200X2 BENCH 155X1 DEADLIFT 240X1 
    Meet Pr's: SQUAT-200X1 BENCH 140X1 DEADLIFT 225X1
    Journal http://www.muscletalk.co....ht-class-m5202445.aspx
    #5
    dirtyvest
    Moderator
    • Total Posts : 48323
    • Reward points: 13409
    • Joined: 2002/04/11 22:19:49
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: is icing really the solution to inflammation? 2014/10/01 21:59:28 (permalink)
    It's not generally applied for long time periods, or over an extended length of time. As Jack5r say, 1st 72hrs it's when it is used and with time on and off is unlikely to be sufficient to hamper the process.... I would assume there are plenty of studies supporting the methodology behind it's use considering how accessible testing the result could be

    Limits, like fear, are often just an illusion: MJ 12/9/09
    My journal
    #6
    billymead2011
    Olympian Member
    • Total Posts : 952
    • Reward points: 3011
    • Joined: 2011/09/08 19:08:05
    • Location: essex
    • Status: offline
    Re: is icing really the solution to inflammation? 2014/10/01 22:02:52 (permalink)
    ive always found it difficult to swallow generic time periods, so all injuries require the same amount of recovery process and are loyal to a  identical time period?  

    My youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/billymead2011
     
    Gym PR's: SQUAT- 200X2 BENCH 155X1 DEADLIFT 240X1 
    Meet Pr's: SQUAT-200X1 BENCH 140X1 DEADLIFT 225X1
    Journal http://www.muscletalk.co....ht-class-m5202445.aspx
    #7
    dirtyvest
    Moderator
    • Total Posts : 48323
    • Reward points: 13409
    • Joined: 2002/04/11 22:19:49
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: is icing really the solution to inflammation? 2014/10/01 22:07:58 (permalink)
    Well no they likely aren't, and there will be a person specific response too I would imagine, but I doubt the protocol given as a general rule would be that detrimental either way, especially if applied with some logic.
     
    My bicep rupture meant I used ice over a few days, a pull in my quad tends to result in me icing it for a bit over a few hours but rarely longer than that. Obviously you can usually feel if the swelling is an issue for mobility, or you can see if the area is still very red etc etc

    Limits, like fear, are often just an illusion: MJ 12/9/09
    My journal
    #8
    Jump to:
    ©2017 All content is copyright of MuscleTalk.co.uk and its use elsewhere is prohibited. (posting guidelines | privacy | advertise | contact us | supported by)
    © 2017 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.5