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Lockedis the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit?

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Big Les
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2011/03/30 10:26:38 (permalink)
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is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit?

Protein enriched meal replacements do not adversely affect liver, kidney, or bone density: an out patient randomised controlled trial.
Li, Treyzon, Chen, Yan, Thames, Carpenter
Nutrition Journal 2010:9
 
Okay this trial only used 2.2g per kg of lean mass but it is a step in the right direction, so next time a health professional gives you a hard time you have another study to quote at them to tell them that the myth peddled during ther education is just that - a myth.
 
As bodybuilders we already knew that high protein diets dont cause kidney, liver or bone density failure through simple experience but hey a little bit of science helps sometimes :)
#1

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    The_Lone_Wolf
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/03/30 11:04:59 (permalink)
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    Great stuff Les.
     
    The field of nutrition is something I have thought going into, it would be a new career path but it's something I enjoy, talking about, learning about and of course, eating haha.
     
    Although I'm not really sure how I would go about it? Any advice or tips on what it's like and how hard it is to get to a high enough level?

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    #2
    El Gringo
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/03/30 12:34:24 (permalink)
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    Nice to see that maybe some outdated information can be replaced by new, and more relevant, data. 
     
    However, the problem is whether or not it actually filters through to people.....
    #3
    Big Les
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/03/30 21:02:03 (permalink)
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    The_Lone_Wolf

    Great stuff Les.

    The field of nutrition is something I have thought going into, it would be a new career path but it's something I enjoy, talking about, learning about and of course, eating haha.

    Although I'm not really sure how I would go about it? Any advice or tips on what it's like and how hard it is to get to a high enough level?

    depends on what  you want to do - if you want to be a dietitian you either do a Dietetics BSc for 4 years, or if you already have a degree in a related field you can do the 2 year MA course.
     
    If you dont want to do it that way you can get a nutrition degree. As for level, well thats down to the work you put in and the career path you choose to follow.
    #4
    James
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/03/30 21:06:55 (permalink)
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    The_Lone_Wolf

    Great stuff Les.

    The field of nutrition is something I have thought going into, it would be a new career path but it's something I enjoy, talking about, learning about and of course, eating haha.

    Although I'm not really sure how I would go about it? Any advice or tips on what it's like and how hard it is to get to a high enough level?

    http://www.dietetics.co.u...-nutrition-advisor.asp
    #5
    slimbops
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/03/30 21:28:58 (permalink)
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    thanks for the link james. Ive always wanted to go to uni to study nutrition but as i got on the property ladder at a young age, ive never had the financial means to go.
    Can you recommend a few books worth reading when it comes to nutrition. I have quite a few when it comes to sports nutrition and such but am always looking to increase my collection.
    Thanks
    #6
    Big Les
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/03/31 10:25:54 (permalink)
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    slimbobs - the dietetics degree is bursary funded if that helps  so no fees and you get paid to do it!
     
    books:
    geissler and powers - human nutrition
    Manual of Dietetic Practice
    Roach and benyon - metabolism and nutrition (crash course series)
    and a biochemistry text book you can understand - mine is by McKee and McKee.
     
    Sports nutrition - Anita Bean - pretty much required reading if you are into sports nutrition.
    #7
    Osagi
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/03/31 11:57:07 (permalink)
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    I had a session with a hospital dietician a couple of weeks ago, supposedly quite well versed in sports nutrition. Tbh I wasn't really in favor of attending this appointment but went along anyway at the request of my cardiologist and blod lipids specialist.
     
    The session didn't go too well from the start; I was asked to provide a rough example of my daily eating habits, pretty easy as it happens as much like many of the guys here I follow a fairly structured and nutrient / calorie controlled diet. However the one thing that stood out to the dietician was my protein intake which for the record is currently at 1g/lb/lbw. She was amazed at this high level of protein intake and asked what on earth I was eating that much protein for, insisting that if I carried on eating that much protein I would be in hospital in a few months time suffering from kidney and liver problems. given tha tI've been eating this way for at least the last 15 years, I very much doubted this!
     
    However the session went on, she couldn't criticise my carb or fat intake one bit, everything is text book (90% of the time lol). But time and again she returned to the issue of protein intake and insisted that I needed no more than 90g protein a day (she came up with that figure without checking my bw btw which I thought was telling) to support my training whereas your average man needs only 70g per day. I continued to disagree with her however she insisted that I should lower my protein intake with the session ending with her saying "ok so you've agreed to lower your protein intake to more sensible levels" and me saying "nope, that's not going to happen."
     
    The point of this visit - to determine if the cause of some problematic blood results are diet related (this wasn't covered at all during the session so I don't know what the feedback will be to the refering doctors). However it's much more likely that these problematic bloods are the result of some negative side effects of my heart medications, known to be highly toxic to various organs and result in such issues as I'm experiencing.
     
    Again the lady I saw was apparently quite well versed in sports nutrition. Strange then that she took such a stance regarding my protein intake.
     
    Osagi
    #8
    The_Lone_Wolf
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/03/31 12:12:40 (permalink)
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    Osagi, I bet you came out more stressed then when you went in? lol
     
    It does make me laugh though, a few years ago I was told by DR that I was overweight and needed to dort my diet out and all the usual health risks speel etc etc.
     
    I was sick of this by now considering that the Dr in question was a good 25 stone and looked like he lived inside a bakery. So I said to him, its a shame you dont follow your own advice because you're a great deal fatter then me. He asked me to leave at this point (Most likely so he could eat a cream cake or something)
     
    The world is crazy. These so called experts should have to renew their skills every so often and stay upto date with research and information and not just say the usual pony.

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    #9
    kitty
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/03/31 12:20:55 (permalink)
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    I have a customer who has lost a lot of weight after a bypass operation. Having reach a plateau in her weight loss she decided she needed to exercise which is why she contacted me. She also asked me to help her with her diet.....which was virtually non-existant in intake. I've been trying gradually to get her to eat a little more and switched her to more healthy foods, by eating smaller meals more frequently. She was due a review with the Dietitian last month. She told her what I'd recommended and the Dietitian sat there with a look ready to pounce on anything that was wrong and looked flabbergasted when she could not fault what I'd suggested. I felt pretty pleased .
     
    The bad news is that even though her weight is still not dropping she is losing the inches and her clothes are getting baggier. The Dietitian sadly was more focused on the scales!
    #10
    Tony Barnes
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/03/31 12:32:37 (permalink)
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    lol @ Osagi & Kittys examples!
    #11
    Osagi
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/03/31 13:15:10 (permalink)
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    A doctor I saw last year made the assessment that I was too fat and needed to lose 'wieght'. This was based on my weight (which a nurse took with my heavy leather jacket and caterpillar boots on) and height (again taken with my boots on) which placed my BMI in the 'obese' category. His 'too fat' assessment was arrived at without any physical exam or even asking me to remove my jacket. He also ignored on several occasions the fact that I go to the gym several times a week and do martial arts n the days in between, telling me I needed to exercise more and tha tI should eat less food, again without asking me what my diet was like.
     
    That visit frustrated the hell out of me.
     
    The visit to the dietitian (thaks for the correct spelling kitty lol) last week didn't bother me so much (but it did waste 30 mins of her and my time), however I guess for the average joe / mary that walks through her door in general she probably does have some good advice to give them. She was also pretty hot so I'll let her off lol.
     
    Interestingly my cardiologist and the lipids specialist are both aware of my weight and where that places me on the bmi table and have both said that the bmi measurement does not apply to folks like me with a large proportion of lean body mass. My cardiologist is amased tha tI am able to keep up the level of exercise I am given the poor state of my heart and the lipids guy was incredibly complementary regard my approach to diet and exercise given my existing health concerns.
     
    So not all a bunch of loonies!
     
    Osagi
    #12
    Will8801
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/03/31 13:34:50 (permalink)
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    I had a small op on my back under general anesthetic and had to go for a pre op assesment with a nurse in the hospital.
    I was advised to give up any supplements (only thing I taking at the time was protein, fish oils and glucosomine) 2 weeks before the operation.
    Maybe I can understand to a small extent the fish oil as it thins the blood but the protein powder and glucosomine???
    I got no sense when I quizzed on the reasons and she turned her attack onto to my BMI which is over 30 (5'10, 16st). My BMI was not a problem at he start of the assesment as she commented that I look 'fit rugby player' (not looks wise).

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    #13
    Osagi
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/03/31 14:06:56 (permalink)
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    It is annoying when health professionals start to spout on about something they have little knowledge of on the basis of other knowledge or experience they may possess somehow qualifiying them to do so.
     
    A good question to ask is "can you explain to me why you have come to that conclusion or made that suggestion?" Quite often they won't be able to at which point they'll usually change subject or deviate into some other line of attack.
     
    I always look forward to the inevitable question when you tell a doctor or nurse that you lift weights - "Do you use steroids?" and when you tell them no, you always get the impression that they never fully believe you.
     
    At the risk of veering further off topic, I recall one time around ten years ago when I visited a doctor due to some pains I was getting in my shins. I was sixteen stone at the time and pretty lean, the doc took one look at me and said "what do you expect this is what you get when you use steroids" then ordered me out of his room telling me not to waste his time!
     
    Turned out to be anterior compartment syndrome requiring an operation to put right. But docs seem to hate us weightlifters and bodybuilders in general. My partner has always made the point that if I was a 'normal' 37 year old with a fondness for pies and a pint down the pub I wouldn't have got half the stick I have from different health professionals I've encountered. Weird.
     
    Osagi
    #14
    Will8801
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/03/31 15:33:45 (permalink)
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    I really believe that a lot of the NHS knowledge or bodybuilding/training comes from typing 'The dangers of creatine' etc into google like everyone else and not from any scientific data.
     
    Thing is if you type 'the dangers of' or 'side effects of' into google you will get a negative answer.
     
    Just type something random like 'the dangers of beetroot'
    http://www.google.co.uk/s...l&client=firefox-a
     
     
     
    post edited by Will8801 - 2011/03/31 15:35:58

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    #15
    Big Les
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/03/31 19:58:17 (permalink)
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    Reminds me of the dietitian while I was on placement, who upon discovering I had a been a sports nutritionist asked my opinion on protein supplements, but when I said they had their place stopped me in my tracks and told me how wrong I was.
     
    She then later that day was complaining that athletes dont listen to dietitians but go to "nutritionists" instead - can you think?
     
    Osagi I feel for you - but I fear the treatment you are getting is of the same crap standard I got when up there too, and my wife got - all of which have left us with life long complications that could and should have been avoided with ease had the professionals bothered to be professional.
     
    That said when it comes to dietetics you are talking to someone who having trained to be a dietitian wants nothing to do with the NHS.
     
    A final anecdote. I went to see a patient as a review, the patient was bed bound, I looked through the notes, and the previous fully qualified dietitian had estimated the patients weight at 64kg - and there were all the beautifully worked out requirements etc based on that figure.
    The patient had been weighed - actual weight 164kg!
     
    #16
    Echo Supplements
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/03/31 22:54:19 (permalink)
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    Just to add to this one - recently had to register a at the docs in Slough (Newcastle is a bit of a long trip!) and had to get weighed etc - same thing, was recommended to lose some weight as my BMI was hovering around the obese category... I genuinely asked if she was serious and was told that anything over 25 was dangerous to health - d'oh!
    #17
    Sharon D
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/07/31 13:26:17 (permalink)
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    Big Les

    Reminds me of the dietitian while I was on placement, who upon discovering I had a been a sports nutritionist asked my opinion on protein supplements, but when I said they had their place stopped me in my tracks and told me how wrong I was.

    She then later that day was complaining that athletes dont listen to dietitians but go to "nutritionists" instead - can you think?

    Osagi I feel for you - but I fear the treatment you are getting is of the same crap standard I got when up there too, and my wife got - all of which have left us with life long complications that could and should have been avoided with ease had the professionals bothered to be professional.

    That said when it comes to dietetics you are talking to someone who having trained to be a dietitian wants nothing to do with the NHS.

    A final anecdote. I went to see a patient as a review, the patient was bed bound, I looked through the notes, and the previous fully qualified dietitian had estimated the patients weight at 64kg - and there were all the beautifully worked out requirements etc based on that figure.
    The patient had been weighed - actual weight 164kg!


    Hi Les.  I'm interested to know if you actually qualified as a Dietitian?  And why don't you want anything to do with the NHS?  I'm thinking of studying to become a Dietitian, with the aim of working for the NHS and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.  Many thanks.
    #18
    Big Les
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/07/31 13:55:09 (permalink)
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    Sharon: technically speaking I am not a dietitian at the moment.
     
    I cannot give detailed comment on the NHS for legal reasons, but the combination of closed attitudes, poor morale, limited time and resources combined to leave me very disillusioned.
     
    Not to say there are not a great people - there are some ace individuals, but overall I feel Dietitians are their own worst enemies with respect to the profession, its development and image.
    #19
    Ak_88
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    Re:is the dietetics profession catching up with bodybuilding a little bit? 2011/07/31 14:04:14 (permalink)
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    TBH Les I think that's reflective of a lot of professions within the NHS unfortunately, too many dinosaurs who refuse to move with the times.
    #20
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