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just about to start dianabol

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con
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2006/07/18 19:53:12 (permalink)
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just about to start dianabol

hi, was wondering if any1 can give me a bit of adivse,
im 25 years old and weigh about 85k have been training for 1 year and not getting any bigger. have been taking creatine every day (1 tea spoon)
have been taking protein shakes 3 times a day.
and just eatin food high in protein, chiken , fish etc.

am just about to start taking dianabol and have been told to stay to a dose of approx, 15mg a day, and take every weekend off and take 2 milk thistle capsules a day as well.

is this correct and is there anything else i need to do, or not do???
#1

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    MT2006
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    RE: just about to start dianabol 2006/07/18 19:59:06 (permalink)
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    http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-beginners-steroids-faq.asp
    http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/clomid-hcg.asp

    Most people go for 30mg a day, no point in having week ends off, 5 weeks

    The way you have described your diet makes me think this could be improved on alot, protein is just one marconutrient and your diet should be nailed before evening thinking about steroids
    #2
    con
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    RE: just about to start dianabol 2006/07/18 20:06:06 (permalink)
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    so how do i go about improving my diet, what do i need to take??
    #3
    MT2006
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    RE: just about to start dianabol 2006/07/18 20:15:35 (permalink)
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    Visit the Diet & Nutrition section mate and post up your current diet and ask for improvements. State what your stats are such as age, training history, how active you are etc.. and set out your current diet in a time format
    e.g

    7:00 5 egg white, 100g oats
    10:00 chicken breast baked potato, side salad

    etc..

    And also state what your goals are, you will get plenty of help
    #4
    Irish Beast
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    RE: just about to start dianabol 2006/07/19 00:03:10 (permalink)
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    Also I dont take creatine every day. You will need to have off periods.

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    #5
    big_mal
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    RE: just about to start dianabol 2006/07/19 00:08:24 (permalink)
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    three things -

    1) 15mg ED is a waste of time IMO - as the guys above say, 30mg is a decent ED dose.

    2) are you sure you're ready? dbol is a different world from the creatine you're using now. 1 year is not enough natural training IMO.

    3) you mention your diet, and it doesn't sound great TBH. a low carb diet will not allow you to bulk effectively whether you use dbol or not. i suggest you sort your diet out first.
    #6
    CoVetous
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    RE: just about to start dianabol 2006/07/19 00:13:18 (permalink)
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    Dbol @ 30mg ed is good for most.

    Your using your creatine wrong as well.
    http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-creatine.asp
    ALSO IMO milk thrisle is a waste while on. Take it post cycle. Milk thistle weakens your steriod
    #7
    big_mal
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    RE: just about to start dianabol 2006/07/19 00:17:27 (permalink)
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    ALSO IMO milk thrisle is a waste while on. Take it post cycle. Milk thistle weakens your steriod



    i disagree. have never found any weakening, but even if true i reckon its worthwhile to pretect your liver while using orals.
    #8
    CoVetous
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    RE: just about to start dianabol 2006/07/19 00:23:25 (permalink)
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    If you have never taken dbol without milk thistle then you cant make a judgment like this. You really dont know how much the milk thistle will reduce the steriod effectiveness. Im not bashin you mal, i agree its worthwhile to protect your liver. But after having bloodwork before and after on dbol cycles without Milkthistle i noticed no change in liver levels. I have also tried while running milkthistle along side the dbol. I didnt really notice a big change in my cycle effectiveness TBH. However, information on bodybuilding.com suggests that milkthistle post cycle as it weekens your steriod.

    ORIGINAL: big_mal
    i disagree. have never found any weakening, but even if true i reckon its worthwhile to pretect your liver while using orals.

    #9
    big_mal
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    RE: just about to start dianabol 2006/07/19 00:28:54 (permalink)
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    dont worry i know you're not bashing me - you are allowed to disagree!

    in a way you have got me because i have never tried an oral cycle without using milk thistle. my argument is - why would you? the stuff is widely available and i can say for certain that you can get v good results from a dbol cycle using milk thistle alongside it.
    #10
    PartyBoy
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    RE: just about to start dianabol 2006/07/19 06:34:21 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: CoVetous

    Milk thistle weakens your steriod


    Can you provide a link please bro. I'd be interested to view the credibility of the claim and whether it is based on clinical data or just hearsay.

    Cheers

    #11
    CoVetous
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    RE: just about to start dianabol 2006/07/19 08:12:33 (permalink)
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    The artical isnt about dbol, but he comments on oral steroids in general. saying:


    I don't normally recommend the use of liver-protectors during a cycle as enhances liver function breaks down a greater amount of your steroid, but in this case you ought to make an exception. Milk thistle, dessicated liver, vitamin B6 and such both during and after a cycle are highly advised

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/cathalo.htm

    I did email the author and asked for more information but havent recived a responce. His email is raven1008@yahoo.com.

    I was also reading some other data on milk thistle
    www.lef.org/abstracts/codex/milk_thistle_abstracts.htm

    18. Drug Metab Dispos. 2000 Nov;28(11):1270-3.

    Milk thistle, a herbal supplement, decreases the activity of CYP3A4 and uridine diphosphoglucuronosyl transferase in human hepatocyte cultures.

    Venkataramanan R, Ramachandran V, Komoroski BJ, Zhang S, Schiff PL, Strom SC.

    Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences School of Pharmacy, Pennsylvania, USA. rv+@pitt.edu

    Milk thistle extract is one of the most commonly used nontraditional therapies, particularly in Germany. Milk thistle is known to contain a number of flavonolignans. We evaluated the effect of silymarin, on the activity of various hepatic drug-metabolizing enzymes in human hepatocyte cultures. Treatment with silymarin (0.1 and 0.25 mM) significantly reduced the activity of CYP3A4 enzyme (by 50 and 100%, respectively) as determined by the formation of 6-beta-hydroxy testosterone and the activity of uridine diphosphoglucuronosyl transferase (UGT1A6/9) (by 65 and 100%, respectively) as measured by the formation of 4-methylumbelliferone glucuronide. Silymarin (0.5 mM) also significantly decreased mitochondrial respiration as determined by MTT reduction in human hepatocytes. These observations point to the potential of silymarin to impair hepatic metabolism of certain coadministered drugs in humans. Indiscriminate use of herbal products may lead to altered pharmacokinetics of certain drugs and may result in increased toxicity of certain drugs.


    I found this of interest because of the comment of increased toxicity of other drugs. Since then i have been looking for a list of "other" drugs that may clash with milk thistle.

    Maybe you will have better luck with the author...

    #12
    Irish Beast
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    RE: just about to start dianabol 2006/07/19 08:15:56 (permalink)
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    Personally I think you can take it or leave it. To the best of my knowledge it has still not been properly trialled and so its goodness is still questionable.

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    #13
    CoVetous
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    RE: just about to start dianabol 2006/07/19 08:19:33 (permalink)
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    Well, Milk thistle does generate new liver cells... so that means it does work to some degree. I use it post cycle mostly because of this article and the other articles here on MT. Funny enough, when im not on cycle, and decide to go drinking, i pop some milk thistle
    #14
    PartyBoy
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    RE: just about to start dianabol 2006/07/19 09:13:52 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: CoVetous


    18. Drug Metab Dispos. 2000 Nov;28(11):1270-3.

    Milk thistle, a herbal supplement, decreases the activity of CYP3A4 and uridine diphosphoglucuronosyl transferase in human hepatocyte cultures.

    Venkataramanan R, Ramachandran V, Komoroski BJ, Zhang S, Schiff PL, Strom SC.

    Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences School of Pharmacy, Pennsylvania, USA. rv+@pitt.edu

    Milk thistle extract is one of the most commonly used nontraditional therapies, particularly in Germany. Milk thistle is known to contain a number of flavonolignans. We evaluated the effect of silymarin, on the activity of various hepatic drug-metabolizing enzymes in human hepatocyte cultures. Treatment with silymarin (0.1 and 0.25 mM) significantly reduced the activity of CYP3A4 enzyme (by 50 and 100%, respectively) as determined by the formation of 6-beta-hydroxy testosterone and the activity of uridine diphosphoglucuronosyl transferase (UGT1A6/9) (by 65 and 100%, respectively) as measured by the formation of 4-methylumbelliferone glucuronide. Silymarin (0.5 mM) also significantly decreased mitochondrial respiration as determined by MTT reduction in human hepatocytes. These observations point to the potential of silymarin to impair hepatic metabolism of certain coadministered drugs in humans. Indiscriminate use of herbal products may lead to altered pharmacokinetics of certain drugs and may result in increased toxicity of certain drugs.


    The above shows that milk thistle can increase the potency of certain drugs. As is the case with grapefruit juice which reduces the expression of cytochrome CYP3A4 which is responsible for metabolising certain drugs.

    It sounds like a catch 22. Increased potency = potentially increased toxicity. This is what we would expect from simply using higher dosages. So perhaps the message should be to consider using less drug if using milk thistle?
    post edited by PartyBoy - 2006/07/19 09:18:00

    #15
    Irish Beast
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    RE: just about to start dianabol 2006/07/19 09:45:17 (permalink)
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    I always take extra when Im going for a drink, It'll take at least 2 extra tablets to cancel out those 12 pints of stella!!

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    #16
    antelope
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    RE: just about to start dianabol 2006/07/19 10:46:58 (permalink)
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    2) are you sure you're ready? dbol is a different world from the creatine you're using now. 1 year is not enough natural training IMO.


    I agree with this. A low carb diet isn't the way forward if you're looking to bulk. Work on improving your diet upping the calories and you will start to see gains. IMO you need to work on your diet and keep training hard (assuming you are anyway) for another a year or so and then consider taking steriods. Without nailing your diet whilst off gear first, IMO you'll be wasting your time and money.

    Steriods can't be looked at as a quick fire way to get results or as a substitute for not understanding your dietry requirements naturally. It's as important to have a good diet off gear as it is on and when you come off again IMO.

    I would give it a miss for a while mate, but that's your call.

    Antelope

    "My only hunger is knowledge"


    #17
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