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met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said...

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CitizenKane
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2009/07/16 11:52:05 (permalink)

met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said...

...that anybody who says you can't build mass and lose fat at the same time is full of sh1t.

I then asked her is the whole concept of bulking vs. cutting then, in her opinion, not a valid one?

And she said it is valid, but you will see faster results if you burn fat and build muscle at the same time (if, that is, you're going for the kind of Men's Health cover physique...which I am).

I'm understandably skeptical, as this seems to go against a lot of what I have read on forums like this. But at the same time, her husband (who is also in the same business as her) has one of the best physiques I've ever seen, muscles til tuesday and sub 10% bf.

She took all my stats and everything and said that, as I'm 90kg,  if I consume 3500 calories a day (180g protein, around 500g carbs, around 70g fat), and add in 20-30 mins of low intensity cardio after every weights session, she estimated that I could drop my bf from 17% to 12% by Xmas, even though I am still eating over maintenance, and put on a lot of mass at the same time.

So my question is... is she full of sh1t?
post edited by CitizenKane - 2009/07/16 11:53:40
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    theiopener
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    Re:met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said... 2009/07/16 11:57:00 (permalink)
    No the people that say you cant do both are.

    It is possible you just need to know your own body and make sure cardio is always included, carbs are lower but not omitted and train hard.

    Just takes time really!
    #2
    Drew Price
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    Re:met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said... 2009/07/16 12:57:34 (permalink)
    You can but I would add it takes some doing and it's not a position you can neccessarily get yourself into using rough formulas like the one above, there's much more to it than that.
    #3
    Big M!
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    Re:met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said... 2009/07/16 16:27:12 (permalink)
    I think one of the mods should write on article on how losing fat and gaining muscle mass at the same time is done. what does the individual need to know about themselves? what time of day is best to do cardio? what to eat? when to do resistance training? everything thats involved.
    #4
    just t
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    Re:met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said... 2009/07/16 16:38:25 (permalink)
    1) Lean muscle gains resulting in decreased bf% possible


    2) Increasing muscle mass while loosing actual fat weight, probally not going to happen in most people


    I think she is full of ****, you cant do a calculation and make wild assumptions like that

    #5
    hamiltonsfitness
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    Re:met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said... 2009/07/16 16:48:22 (permalink)
    2) Increasing muscle mass while loosing actual fat weight, probably not going to happen in most people


    In my experience it is more successful than trying to fat bulk and then cut and hope you've got some muscle left.


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    #6
    kitty
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    Re:met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said... 2009/07/17 07:35:12 (permalink)
    hamiltonsfitness

    2) Increasing muscle mass while loosing actual fat weight, probably not going to happen in most people


    In my experience it is more successful than trying to fat bulk and then cut and hope you've got some muscle left.

    And it's more enjoyable as we can eat more 'crap'
    #7
    just t
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    Re:met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said... 2009/07/17 11:29:20 (permalink)
    hamiltonsfitness

    2) Increasing muscle mass while loosing actual fat weight, probably not going to happen in most people


    In my experience it is more successful than trying to fat bulk and then cut and hope you've got some muscle left.


    well i can honestly say ive never seen it done first hand. The people i see that attempt it never seem to make any changes



    #8
    Malika
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    Re:met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said... 2009/07/17 11:36:07 (permalink)
    In my experience I made the best gain during pre-contest diet...

    People who believe it's impossible to add muscle mass on a cut just didn't try...
    #9
    loz_86
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    Re:met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said... 2009/07/17 11:51:44 (permalink)
    just out of interest how do you know you gained muscle mass and that you didnt just look bigger because you were getting leaner

    did you lifts increase notably?

    also were you assisted?



    #10
    just t
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    Re:met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said... 2009/07/17 12:01:21 (permalink)
    most people have a hard enough time adding a meagre amount of lean tissue per year with plenty of effort.

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    Malika
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    Re:met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said... 2009/07/17 13:04:02 (permalink)
    loz_86

    just out of interest how do you know you gained muscle mass and that you didnt just look bigger because you were getting leaner

    did you lifts increase notably?

    also were you assisted?


    I know not only by the mirror but because my weight went up as I got leaner...

    Yes my lift did increase.

    Yes I was assisted.

    I have to add that I diet on Keto with a very high protein intake(at one stage I was on 16-18 egg whites at my first meals) & no refeed...

    It works for me.
    #12
    tom .p.
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    Re:met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said... 2009/07/17 13:10:56 (permalink)
    Hamiltonsfitness,
     
    I've never spoke to anyone that has actually achieved this goal before, and I'd love to give it a try, so would you be willing to post info on how you structured your diet?
    post edited by tom .p. - 2009/07/17 13:12:09
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    loz_86
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    Re:met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said... 2009/07/17 13:20:03 (permalink)
    Yes I was assisted.


    theres your answer then

    99% of natural trainers will not gain much lean mass and strength while cutting irrespective of diet. if you dont mind slow progress then go for it

    #14
    DC77
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    Re:met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said... 2009/07/17 13:25:52 (permalink)
    For a seasoned training with out assistance I would suggest that loosing fat and gaining muscle would be extremely difficult.

    A new trainer or some coming back from a long layoff its possible.

    Assisted - its possible.

    If you did a study over a year between a series of bodybuilding with similar characterics - 1 group did the cut/bulk/cut/bulk and the other long haul - it would be interesting to see the outcome - obviously it would be difficult to get people with the same variables such as genetic and social make-up.
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    CitizenKane
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    Re:met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said... 2009/07/18 15:49:24 (permalink)
    Im just wondering which direction to take now. I have been bulking for around 6 months and my plan was to bulk for another 6 and then go on a cut with keto or carb cycling or some such around Jan 2010.

    I was always under the impression that it is nigh on impossible, if not just very rare, to be able to build mass and decrease body fat simultaneously. But if it is possible to do both, as this trainer I met with insists, then I am seriously considering just doing this and scrapping my bulk/cut plan. I suppose given that I've only been training for around 6 months and I'm still a new trainer really, perhaps this would be more possible for someone like me, as the poster above mentioned.

    By the way she didnt just give me arbitrary figures like "around 180g protein" etc, she gave me very specific numbers, but I just couldn't remember them off the top of my head when I was making this thread, and she is going to send me them all in an e-mail this week. So it was me saying 'around', not her, lol.

    As just t said, it would be extremely hard to lose any actual fat weight, but I honestly couldn't care less about how much I weigh, all I want is to get my bf down! Is this possible to do whilst eating over maintenance and bulking? I realise that this question is asked countless times on this forum, but it just seems to be one of those ridiculously contentious issues that nobody really seems to agree on
    #16
    strikalite
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    Re:met with a sports dietician/nutritonist/PT and she said... 2009/07/18 17:13:47 (permalink)
    I agree with DC77, for a seasonal trainer and training clean then very difficult IMO..
     
    If your lifestyle, diet and training is spot on for YOU then it's possible, you haven't been training too long so you're at an advantage. Tiger Woods, Andy Murray just to name two sportsman that have added lean tissue without added bodyfat...yes?
    #17
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