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my latest routine...please critque!

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kaleel86
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2005/08/01 12:34:43 (permalink)
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my latest routine...please critque!

The following is my latest routine, i'm starting after alot of advice on this forum and will hopefully continue for abt 12 weeks before swapping exercises around:

monday:PUSH

BB bench press 5x5
DB shoulder press 5x5
CG becn press 5x5
DB flyes 4x6

wednesday: PULL

Chin ups 5x5
Deadlifts 5x5
BB rows 5x5
Incline Bicep Curls 4x6

friday: LEGS

Squats 5x5
Leg curls 4x6
Calf raises 4x6

as for the chest, im sure most of you would agree that im probably doing too much i.e. the flyes, the problem is, i have a 100% **** chest, and for me, the bench press alone wont stimulate it enough, my triceps tend to fail too quick! so i figure if i make sure its fatigued enough, it should help it grow.

the legs, i would like to put in SLDL but i've never done them before, and dont know anyone in the gym that can show me how, havent seen 1 person there do deadlifts or squats before!

anyway, i request that u take the absoulte p1ss out of my routine (constructively lol) and let me know what im doing wrong.

cheers
p.s. not pushing any of the exercises to failure, apart from the bicep curl and the flyes....problem there???
#1

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    kaleel86
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/01 12:35:59 (permalink)
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    sorry i posted this in the wrong section.... shoudl have been in routines

    #2
    Chez
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/01 13:54:50 (permalink)
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    p.s. not pushing any of the exercises to failure, apart from the bicep curl and the flyes....problem there???


    Why those 2? whats so special about those?

    The whole idea of this sort of training is that you do go to failure (normally on the last set) and if you manage 5x5 of a given weight you move the weight up the following week!

    Frankies routine is quite good but its really hard going! I have done it in the past with reasonable gains but I think that there are better routines I doubt I will do it again.

    Finally I would recommend you do incline DB press or dips rather than bench.

    #3
    kaleel86
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/01 14:36:09 (permalink)
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    i thought maybe i should push them to exercises to failure because they arent directly hit by any other exercise.
    are u suggesting that i push all the exercises to failure?
    thing is, i've been training to failure for sometime now, and i read that it is good to change ur routine so ur not pushing to failure sometimes because of overloading the CNS .....or words to the affect. also given that all the exercises are heavy compund, it would be quite strenuos to train all of them to failure? at least thats what i have read from this forum and other articles.

    also, just for knowledge building reasons, why do u suggest incline bench press/dips?

    cheers chez
    post edited by kaleel86 - 2005/08/01 14:38:29
    #4
    Chez
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/01 15:15:41 (permalink)
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    I don't mean train to failure on every set - but the whole idea of a 5x5 routine is that 5 sets of 5 is your target and you should be increasing the weight the following week if you reach that target. If you don't reach that target then you get as close to it as possible 5,5,5,5,4 (i.e. failing on the final set) for example - keep the weight the same next week and try and do better. You should train like this on all the excercises.

    I and many others have found incline and dips to be better mass builders for chest than flat bench.

    #5
    kaleel86
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/01 15:34:37 (permalink)
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    okay great, i'll do it as you say. but the area that is lagging on my chest is the bottom part and the outer sides, i know that the chest is one muscle, but i thought maybe keeping flat would recruit the lower fibres or put more stress on them, where as the inlcine wud move the stress onto the higher fibres.

    also, if i get to 3 3rd set on any of the exercises and i know i wont be able to push five on the next set, shall i lower the weight so i know i can do 5? or just push to 3 on the 4th set, and then probably lower on the 5th set?

    #6
    QUARANTINE
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/01 15:53:57 (permalink)
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    Incline DB and Dips make a good alternative and possibly a better one but BB bench is still ok.
    I wouldnt worry to much bro that looks a great routine, stick at it and it should yield great results but dont go lower than 5 if you have to lower the weight then so be it, you will have to give it a few sessions before you know what weight to use anyway.

    One thing i would change is the incline curls, just do regular standing curls with an oly bar, the best bicep movement there is IMO.
    #7
    Chez
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/01 16:18:00 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: kaleel86

    okay great, i'll do it as you say. but the area that is lagging on my chest is the bottom part and the outer sides, i know that the chest is one muscle, but i thought maybe keeping flat would recruit the lower fibres or put more stress on them, where as the inlcine wud move the stress onto the higher fibres.

    also, if i get to 3 3rd set on any of the exercises and i know i wont be able to push five on the next set, shall i lower the weight so i know i can do 5? or just push to 3 on the 4th set, and then probably lower on the 5th set?


    No, 5x5 with the same weight is the target - its best to start with a weight you can comfortably do 5x5 and increase as appropriate. I know its massive but make sure you read the frankies 5x5 thread here he clarifies alot of people's queires!

    okay great, i'll do it as you say. but the area that is lagging on my chest is the bottom part and the outer sides, i know that the chest is one muscle, but i thought maybe keeping flat would recruit the lower fibres or put more stress on them, where as the inlcine wud move the stress onto the higher fibres.


    Perhaps flat bench will hit the sternal head more so than dips or incline (the jury is still out on that) but only marginally IMO - Your chest will grow with the same shape regardless of the excercise you do, but will grow more quickly with dips or incline. If you do flat I also think you will find your CG bench quite difficult in the same workout also.
    #8
    kaleel86
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/02 10:25:30 (permalink)
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    cheers guys,
    chez regarding the incline/dips, would it work more of my delts because yesterday my shoulder press was pathetic, could only do about 60-70% of what i can usually do! i supose that was the benchpresss affect before hand, but what i'm thinking is, if i do incline, it would probably hammer the delts even more, rendering me more useless on the shoulder press? and yes my CG press was quite pathetic too ..... but i supose it makes certain my triceps are hammered.
    #9
    Chez
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/02 11:48:06 (permalink)
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    Yeah incline would hit your delts marginaly more than flat bench. Dips less so.

    I always found it best to make shoulder press the first excercise on push day. For some reason, with me atleast, it doesn't knacker me out and affect my following lifts (like incline) but if I do incline first it will affect my shoulder press. However, this may not be the case with you so I recommend you do incline first, if you delts are fatigued then so be it - thats the point.

    EDIT: Are you doing OHP or seated military/shoulder press?
    post edited by Chez - 2005/08/02 11:56:08
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    kaleel86
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/02 18:23:06 (permalink)
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    im doing seated dumbell presses.

    maybe i can incorporate the dips to replace the flyes? in which case, shall i do them after CG bench press or before?
    #11
    sootybaby
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/03 11:47:49 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: kaleel86

    im doing seated dumbell presses.

    maybe i can incorporate the dips to replace the flyes? in which case, shall i do them after CG bench press or before?



    I am not a huge fan of CGBP as a tricep workout. Mainly because of its closeness to the normal bench in form. I find that it is better to replace it with dips. Dips work the chest more than bench press and are an effective tricep exercise as well.

    I currently do this on a 5*5 push day.

    Bench press 5*5
    Shoulder press d/b 5*5
    dips 5*5
    overhead tricep push d/b 3*8
    #12
    kaleel86
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/03 13:38:15 (permalink)
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    hi sooty, i dont really find my chest gets worked much on close grip (does that mean im doing it wrong ), and for me i reckon its the best compond. from what i've read, its best to keep this routine as close to 100% compound exercises as possible?
    #13
    sootybaby
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/03 15:39:40 (permalink)
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    neither bench press (barbell) nor close grip bench will exercise the chest better than dips.

    Both the standard and close grip bench work triceps/lats/shoulders and, to a lesser degree, the chest. It is just that by closing the grip down with the close grip bench you are putting more emphasis on the triceps. It is just that if I could only do 3 exercises, the CGBP would be the one to be jettisoned. I reckon that weighted dips involve more work that the CGBP and that the CGBP is merely duplicating the bench press (albeit with more emphasis on the triceps).
    #14
    Rodger
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/03 16:46:01 (permalink)
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    I reckon that weighted dips involve more work that the CGBP and that the CGBP is merely duplicating the bench press (albeit with more emphasis on the triceps).


    I'm interested/intruiged as to this comment, not that i dissagree with you sooty its just I'm been trying to compile a routine (3day split to 4 day) in this same section and i favor cg bench also with dips plus and looking at either db flat/incline or BB flat/incline

    You couldnt take a quick peek could you mate?

    sorry to hijack thread, kaleel86

    Injured!!

    Squat 170kgx1 105kgx25
    Dead 200x1
    Decline Bench 80x6

    Formerly BencherRdg  (what a stoooopid name!)
    #15
    gary1985
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/03 20:29:38 (permalink)
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    me and my gym partner have a rule: NEVER END ON AN ODD NUMBER. or punishment. but do push/pull to failure.
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    kaleel86
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/03 21:45:10 (permalink)
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    okay thats great, i think i'll throw the flyes out and put the dips in.
    another question, i've gone and done my routine with push first, then pull and legs. i remmeber reading somewherre to keep push in the middle, is that correct or am i mistaken.....or dont it make a difference?
    also, do i have to do shoulder presses standing? it seem to be the norm with this kind of routine.

    chez, i just reliased you said that you think there are better routines out there in your earlier posts? just out of interest, which routines are they?

    cheers

    post edited by kaleel86 - 2005/08/03 21:54:03
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    sootybaby
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/04 10:06:57 (permalink)
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    me and my gym partner have a rule: NEVER END ON AN ODD NUMBER. or punishment. but do push/pull to failure.


    gary1985: This keeps coming up on the board. Failure is not required for strength or muscle gains. If you go to failure repeatedly, especially going heavy on the large compound exercises, you are heading for burnout. This is even more critical if you are using a 5*5 approach when all working sets are at the high end of your percentage 1 rep maximum.

    another question, i've gone and done my routine with push first, then pull and legs. i remmeber reading somewherre to keep push in the middle, is that correct or am i mistaken.....or dont it make a difference?


    kaleel86: If you are doing deads on your pull day, and are going heavy, at some point you may find that the strain on your back can take up to 2 to 3 days to fully recover. This can interfere with the squats in the leg set. That's why most people go by the order of Pull, Push then Legs, because you get three clear days recovery.

    Rodge: Will do!

    -Sooty
    #18
    kaleel86
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/04 12:26:28 (permalink)
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    sooty, okay so how would io go abouts changing my routine with out missig any days?? or will i have to miss a day and then swap it round?
    with regards to pushing to failure, on frankies thread it mentions pushing to failure on the last set i think? shall i do this for say 10 weeks, and then stop pushing to failure on the next cycle?
    #19
    sootybaby
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    RE: my latest routine...please critque! 2005/08/04 13:08:09 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: kaleel86

    sooty, okay so how would io go abouts changing my routine with out missig any days?? or will i have to miss a day and then swap it round?
    with regards to pushing to failure, on frankies thread it mentions pushing to failure on the last set i think? shall i do this for say 10 weeks, and then stop pushing to failure on the next cycle?


    Carry on until leg day (friday?) then go pull push legs on the following week if you want to swich things round.

    As to failure and frankies. If the man was around he would probably say that you set your 5 sets of five to such a level that you are close to failing on the fifth rep of the final set. Now this is a close call to get right, and depending on energy levels and how you feel that day you could well just push out 4 reps on the final set. But this routine goes heavy from the first set and as such, is very taxing on the CNS without the additional load of working to failure. I don't think many experienced trainers using low rep schemes would advocate repeatedly going to failure.

    If I was going to go to failure, just to see how far I was progressing, I would rather warm up and then do progressive singles towards failure to establish my current 1RM. I do fail on occasion on the smaller compounds. I am just wary of doing it to often on the biggest lifts.
    #20
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