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pryamids as sets??????

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shahid
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2005/07/21 20:17:04 (permalink)
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pryamids as sets??????

yesterday i was in the gym and there is the this hugh muscley guy his been training ten years i asked him expect from eatin loadz whats the best way to gain muscle mass on the body he told me to do pryamid sets to start with low weight and about 12 reps then work my way up on weight and down on reps juz wanted to confirm does this kind of work out help to gain muscle mass??????
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    zulu
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/21 20:46:21 (permalink)
    Its all personal peferance mate. I like to do 2 sets 12-15reps to warm up. Then i pick a wieght i can manage for 6-8 reps and use that for my working sets.
    A mate of mine has been traing me for the last 2 weeks and hes had me pryamiding. I must admit im not a fan, i do seem to get a good burn in the muscles but i tire a lot quicker and it dosnt feel right for me.

    No that isnt my back, it belongs to my bro, the aptly named Mr Freaky
    #2
    Blasphemousfish
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/21 20:53:07 (permalink)
    Pyramiding is good in that you do push your muscles at a high wieght when they are already tired... however, I prefer inverse pyramiding. Getting the heavy reps out with good form while muscle is fresh feels better and safer to me.

    We do not forgive. We do not forget. 
    #3
    Lewandad
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/21 21:02:25 (permalink)
    inverse pyramiding is the way for me as well, but only with certain exercises.
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    tokar
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/21 21:47:51 (permalink)
    Pyramiding is no better than doing several heavy sets with a certain weight.

    It needn't necessarily be worse either, but the danger with pyramiding is that people tend to exhaust themselves too early with high rep sets with relatively light weights, going close to failure, and not saving enough energy for the heavier sets.
    #5
    tokar
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/21 23:53:21 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: majesticpower

    For a beginner pyramidding is one of the safest and most effective ways of building mass IMO.

    MP.


    How is pyramiding safer than work sets at a set weight? I mean, warming up should be a given.
    #6
    motorhead
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/22 11:58:44 (permalink)
    i have always pryamid my sets,as the weight go's up the reps go down,if you were benching two 40kg sets of ten reps and then jump to 100kg would that not be unsafe on your joints ?
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    LOCUST
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/22 12:13:32 (permalink)
    Ive recently started pyramiding.

    eg DB shoulder press

    1x12 @ 16
    1x10 @ 18
    1x8 @ 20
    1x6 @ 22

    Thats how ive been doing it recently, only for a week or so.

    It makes a change from 4x6 or 3x8.
    Ive never really trained like this before so its a good thing to experiment.
    #8
    tokar
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/22 12:21:16 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: motorhead

    i have always pryamid my sets,as the weight go's up the reps go down,if you were benching two 40kg sets of ten reps and then jump to 100kg would that not be unsafe on your joints ?


    That's why I said "warming up should be a given". Jumping from 40 to 100 is just not warming up properly. It's not a question of either pyramiding or not warming up properly.

    Pyramid workout:
    Warm up: 60x10
    Work sets: 80x15, 90x10, 100x6, 110x3

    Straight sets workout:
    Warm up: 60x5, 80x5, 90x3
    Work sets: 100x5x5
    #9
    Chez
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/22 13:17:58 (permalink)
    To be honest I like to pyramid my squats even now - I just don't feel comfortable making the jump form warmup to worksets in one.
    #10
    DCR
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/22 14:52:36 (permalink)
    i used to pyramid up until about 2 weeks ago. After doing 3x8 for 2 weeks IMO a pyramid set isnt working the muscle nearly hard enough. As already said, for beginners its a safe way of building mass.

    DCR
    #11
    motorhead
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/22 15:26:04 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Chez

    To be honest I like to pyramid my squats even now - I just don't feel comfortable making the jump form warmup to worksets in one.

    yes thats the i feel.
    #12
    Airborne Warrior
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/22 15:52:40 (permalink)
    I pyramid squats and deadlifts though all other exercises i go heavy straight from warmup.
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    tokar
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/22 17:56:39 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Chez

    To be honest I like to pyramid my squats even now - I just don't feel comfortable making the jump form warmup to worksets in one.


    In one what? One jump? Who's saying you need to?

    This was precisely my point. "Pyramid sets" usually means doing several work sets at different weights, increasing the weight while decreasing the reps, eg.
    60x10, 80x15, 90x10, 100x6, 110x3
    where all sets except the first are work sets.

    Doing work sets at a set weight doesn't mean doing a warm up set and then jumping 80 odd kilos and ploughing straight into work sets. For example, my last squat workout was like this:

    60x5, 80x5, 100x3, 120x3, 127.5x4x8 (8 sets of 4)

    Only the sets at 127.5 were work sets. Only an idiot would have jumped from 60 to 127.5- but that doesn't mean you have to do "pyramid sets".
    #14
    tokar
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/25 14:44:20 (permalink)


    Tokar- You should not dismiss Pyramiding as easily as you seem to.


    Where did I "dismiss" pyramiding at all, let alone easily? Just to remind you, here is what I said about pyramiding:

    "Pyramiding is no better than doing several heavy sets with a certain weight.

    It needn't necessarily be worse either, but the danger with pyramiding is that people tend to exhaust themselves too early with high rep sets with relatively light weights, going close to failure, and not saving enough energy for the heavier sets."

    There is in that one possible criticism- and that, in any case, is a criticism of the way in which some people who do pyramid sets train, not a criticism of the whole idea of pyramiding in itself. Where you have got the idea from that I am "dismissing" pyramid training I can't imagine. In fact, I agree with most of what you have to say, except your apparent claim that only with pyramid sets is it possible to warm up properly:


    But i will stick by my initial comment of saying that pyramiding is one of the safest ways for beginners to train.

    Pyramiding also allows beginners to slowing increase the weight in increments.


    How many times??! I have said twice now that a slow increase in weight increments is NOT a feature exclusively of pyramid sets. I don't know how many other ways I can find to explain it. I always increase the weight in several increments while warming up for my work sets, eg

    60x5, 80x3, 100x3, 120x3, 127.5x4x8

    But this is not pyramiding! Because only the sets at 127.5 are work sets. The sets prior to the work sets are all important in warming up the muscles and nervous system, and it would be crazy to miss them out, but they are warm up sets nevertheless- they are not supposed to be particularly strenuous.


    #15
    skinnyjoe
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/25 18:04:40 (permalink)
    What pyramiding does by starting on a higher reps, is it acts a catalyst by force feeding blood into the muscles in preparation for your heavier that’s to follow.


    That is exactly what warm up sets are for which are important no matter what set and rep scheme you use.
    #16
    TONY
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/25 19:06:01 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: tokar

    Pyramiding is no better than doing several heavy sets with a certain weight.

    It needn't necessarily be worse either, but the danger with pyramiding is that people tend to exhaust themselves too early with high rep sets with relatively light weights, going close to failure, and not saving enough energy for the heavier sets.



    i did this for nearly two years of my training, bumping out the reps with low weight and having nothing left for the heavy sets. if i was going to pyramid again i would make sure the first 3 out of say 5 sets went no where near failure leaving plenty for the heavy sets.
    #17
    tokar
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    RE: pryamids as sets?????? 2005/07/26 14:38:03 (permalink)

    Those of you who are exhausting yourselves too soon on pyramiding are simply doing too high of a rep scheme and missing out on the effective part of the program due to over-exhausting yourselfs too soon.


    I completely agree with this. That was precisely what I was suggesting was the danger of pyramiding sets.

    Tokar- Maybe you are missing my point. Also tell me, when making examples of pyramiding training, why are you using examples of up to 15reps!? Is this your example of making pyramiding look ineffective, or is this how you have been training on pyramiding? If so it’s no wonder you don’t seem keen on it.


    I used an example with 15 reps because in my experience most people who train with pyramid sets start off with a set of 12-15, usually going within a couple of reps of failure. I completely agree that this is an ineffective way of pyramiding, but it is nonetheless how most people who do pyramid sets train. I don't use pyramid sets at all.

    When i suggested you were 'dismissing' Pyramiding all too easily that was a loosely used word to suggest your lack of interest for pyramiding. When I had made the comment of ‘’for a beginner pyramiding is one of the safest and most effective ways of building mass IMO.’’ – You replied with: ‘’How is pyramiding safer than work sets at a set weight? I mean, warming up should be a given’’

    Now where did I say it was safer then anything? I purely said it was one of the safest ways for a beginner to ease themselves into training with. So if you want to be petty and take comments out of context then it’s easily done.


    I'm not trying to be petty and if that's how it came across to you I'm sorry. My point was this: You said that pyramiding was one of the safest and most effective ways of building mass. You now seem to be conceding that it is in fact no better than straight sets with a proper warm-up. So your statement in fact offered no argument in favour of pyramiding rather than any other protocol, as it seemed like it was meant to do.

    In any case, I cannot be bothered in arguing with you, you’re clearly set in your ways, and we will just be going in circles.


    Not in the slightest. Like I said, I've nothing special against pyramiding; I just don't think you've offered any good reason to prefer it to straight working sets, that's all.

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