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revolution, capitalism etc

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dazzz
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2014/10/28 18:13:51 (permalink)

revolution, capitalism etc

Im a big russell brand fan, mostly because of the things he says these days about revolution and his trews youtube channel etc.

He is always discredited as a moron etc but i think this podcast where he interviews professor David Graeber is fantastic.

Id be interested to hear the views of the members who know more about this sort of thing than me.

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/6059552?1414502622

  




 
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    crooks
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/28 18:55:57 (permalink)
    No he is not a moron, and yes he is quite right about a lot of things.
     
    But - he most definitely is an overprivileged mansion dwelling pampered celebrity, with absolutely no right to dictate to anyone how we should live our lives. The same goes for Annie Lennox with her Stephen Lawrence bull****, Billy Bragg, Bill Oddie and his shame at being British, **** the lot of em.
    #2
    EDBANGER
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/28 19:06:18 (permalink)
    Thing is Brand hasn't always been a Manson dwelling celebrity and he is very much aware of this fact whilst he talks about the political revolution. I'm currently reading his new book and I like the guy. If he had a political party.....I'd vote for him.

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    #3
    Bookerman
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/28 19:16:37 (permalink)
    Got a lot of repect for someone who critisises capitalism while grabbing all the fruits of it.

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    Rasputin
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/28 19:54:44 (permalink)
    I like Russell Brand as a comedian seen him live twice and he is very good. However he is a comedian he should stick to that. Preaching from his Ivory tower, at the end of the day he is a reformed junkie smacked who is looking out for number 1. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. Does this make him an idiot or potentially bad politician no it does not as the same can be said for most of the current crop of MPs.
     
    Does his ridiculous ideological take on capitalism/humanitarism etc make him an idiot then yes it fcking does he preaches like one of those university professors who have never stepped foot of a campus and only know the world through books etc. If you asked him fundamental economics questions, policy etc he has no answers for them and all he does is criticise  them which is fair enough but lets be honest the true mark of intellect would be to constructively criticise then add a work around so far I have yet to see anything he has set with a constructive standpoint. 
     
    Add this stage he remains sadly a well spoken individual who is saying what the masses wish to hear.
     
     
     
     
     

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    doc
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/28 21:15:12 (permalink)
    Bookerman
    Got a lot of repect for someone who critisises capitalism while grabbing all the fruits of it.



     
    This , although the capitalism he criticises is actually fraud , corruption, socialism, fascism anything but capitalism really , and the reason he is successful and has a platform to speak from is because of the benefits of capitalism .
     
     
    #6
    dazzz
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/28 21:53:46 (permalink)
    Rasputin
    I like Russell Brand as a comedian seen him live twice and he is very good. However he is a comedian he should stick to that. Preaching from his Ivory tower, at the end of the day he is a reformed junkie smacked who is looking out for number 1. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. Does this make him an idiot or potentially bad politician no it does not as the same can be said for most of the current crop of MPs.
     
    Does his ridiculous ideological take on capitalism/humanitarism etc make him an idiot then yes it fcking does he preaches like one of those university professors who have never stepped foot of a campus and only know the world through books etc. If you asked him fundamental economics questions, policy etc he has no answers for them and all he does is criticise  them which is fair enough but lets be honest the true mark of intellect would be to constructively criticise then add a work around so far I have yet to see anything he has set with a constructive standpoint. 
     
    Add this stage he remains sadly a well spoken individual who is saying what the masses wish to hear.
     
     
     
     
     


    The ideas and examples of them working are put forward in the interview.

    He fully admits that he's made money out of it. But i think the major point is how the big corporations make their money.

    The point the guy in the interview makes about how the banking crisis happened amazed me. I thought it was just a **** up because of greed, i didnt realise that it was actually a simple scam and that they knew exactly what they were doing
    post edited by dazzz - 2014/10/28 21:56:27

      




     
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    Skrewdriver
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/29 11:10:04 (permalink)
    Listened to 38 mins whilst I have been working this morning. Yes, some very interesting conversation in regards to how the 'system' works, - but their communist suggestions which allude to people just not bothering to pay their debts, and for Government to seperate theirselves from financial institutions so debts cannot be enforced are ridiculous.
     
    I accept that the fusion of Government/Police and Finance have blatently taken the p*ss out of people for their own gain, but their solution hardly is one! It would just encourage so many more people to buy more than they can afford.
    We already have families having 5 - 6 kids when only one parent is working on minimum wage (or less), - people not bothering to pay their rent and relying on councils to house them when they *eventually* get kicked out (and their months/years of rental arrears written off).. - businesses deliberately going into liquidation to write off all their debts to continue trading under a different name - what they are suggesting is ridiculous and would turn the country into a slum.
     
    As for comparing a debt to a promise, saying that promises can change depending on circumstances, but debt cannot, that's not true either. If you promise to be somewhere at 5, and you arrive at 6, is like promising to pay a debt, but due to circumstance, arranging to pay it a little later.. - it's exactly the same.
     
    I don't understand why they think that intentionally breaking promises can be a good thing.
    And also - paying everyone the same wage and letting them do what they like because everyone knows what they are good at and no-one wants to be lazy. Complete nonsense.
     
     
    post edited by Skrewdriver - 2014/10/29 11:11:11

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    Rasputin
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/29 14:17:52 (permalink)
    Just listened to it all. What a load of fckin liberal left wing tosh. A Professor and a crack head marxist millionaire I didn't really expect anything else but it was woeful. 
     
    "All mortgage values over a certain values were wiped out, I can't remember exactly how but they were and it survived.. same with Bolivia etc" FCK ME if you needed any assurance that n fact they are a pair of plonkers then its there an "Emeritus" professor commenting on economics and not knowing the exact way that Iceland resolved its issue. JUST LOL FCKING LOL lets firstly not know what we are talking about then compare the economies of USA UK the same way even though they drive the world. 
     
    Then Brand not knowing where Davos is where the world economic forum is hold fck me how an you comment on stuff if you don't know these things.
     
    Anyone who thinks fully empowering people, giving them more democratic influence is deluded at best and dangerous at worse. As shown there are a lot of people who don't necessarily have the where with all to be fully autonomous it would lead to a shower. All peopler not created equal and never will be so as a result you can't try and introduce something that relies on equality.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    post edited by Rasputin - 2014/10/29 15:17:21

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    Aaron Hallett
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/29 15:13:07 (permalink)
    without listening, is this a liberal socialist borderline communist 'everyone should be the same' with no clear policies to correct said 'captain obvious' statements?
     
     
     

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    #10
    Rasputin
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/29 15:16:44 (permalink)
    Pretty much mate. Though its slightly better disguised this time. But fundamentally the same.

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    #11
    Skrewdriver
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/29 18:00:29 (permalink)
     
     
    I think Brand discredits himself by continually redirecting the conversation back to debt cancellation time and time again.. - seems all he's interested in is for everyone to be able to get away with ripping everyone else off. Brilliant.

    Hate to sound like a consipiracy theorist but I do wonder whether the powers-that-be take measures to keep people living in fear. Living in fear and suspicion of your 'neighbour' means you're more likely to live an insular life.. solitary existances are much easier to control than organised groups. Look at some relgions or cultures who have a reputation of sticking together, the Government seems terrified of upsetting them. Bloke on his own - couldnt care less.

    If huge groups of people got together in an organised fashion, great things are possible.

    What if - every single person who has a mortgage in the UK suddenly stopped paying it - What would happen??
     
     
     

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    dazzz
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/29 18:26:51 (permalink)
    Something has to change. We need real democracy and for laws to be applied to the super rich aswell.

    I'm not saying i agree with everything they say should happen, but im glad someone with a high profile is atleast raisng the points....he seems convinced that revolution is coming....I wish I was as optimistic

      




     
    #13
    cu3ed
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/29 19:04:02 (permalink)
    Thought he was made of over used assholes, then warmed to him when he talked about drug rehabilitation.
     
    Now, he's just a complete and utter and total twat of the highest order, he has absolutely no clue what he is talking about himself. Using worlds in the wrong context that he can jsut about pronounce ( or words he jsut makes up to sound brainier), then when asked how he would actually do anything to make change happen, he jsut waffles on and on. He is an utter hypocrite.
     
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    Rasputin
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/29 19:20:42 (permalink)
    Skrewdriver
     
     
    I think Brand discredits himself by continually redirecting the conversation back to debt cancellation time and time again.. - seems all he's interested in is for everyone to be able to get away with ripping everyone else off. Brilliant.

    Hate to sound like a consipiracy theorist but I do wonder whether the powers-that-be take measures to keep people living in fear. Living in fear and suspicion of your 'neighbour' means you're more likely to live an insular life.. solitary existances are much easier to control than organised groups. Look at some relgions or cultures who have a reputation of sticking together, the Government seems terrified of upsetting them. Bloke on his own - couldnt care less.

    If huge groups of people got together in an organised fashion, great things are possible.

    What if - every single person who has a mortgage in the UK suddenly stopped paying it - What would happen??
     
     
     




     
    Basically 2008 Sub Prime crisis in America would happen again. Banks would legally foreclose and people potentially would deb homeless. Not to mention the fact that Londons financial clout in the world would be shot and as a result the back bone of the UK economy would collapse over night causing a knock on effect with everyone and everything else from Pensions to NHS to Prisons. So yeah would be pretty bad. 
     
    This debt cancellation idea is total ****ing bollocks. If your mate borrows money off you then says actually I have the means to pay it back but I don't want to, you don't go thats ok buddy I will sleep soundly at night as a result of the altruistic benefits of giving you free money. You say pay me back or I will smash your fcking face in you cheeky ****. 
     
    Its ridiculous to propose that people should just not pay their debt back, by all means don't lend to people because you don't think you won't get paid but to lend then just write it off is false economy. 

    Ra Ra Rasputin lover of the Russian Queen, Ra Ra Ra Rasputin Russia's greatest love machine (Allegedly)
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    Trident
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/29 22:15:44 (permalink)
    Bookerman
    Got a lot of repect for someone who critisises capitalism while grabbing all the fruits of it.



    He's worth about $20 Million
     
    And I bet he's got that invested and working to make him some more!
    #16
    dazzz
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/29 22:46:56 (permalink)
     
     
    Its ridiculous to propose that people should just not pay their debt back, by all means don't lend to people because you don't think you won't get paid but to lend then just write it off is false economy. 


    Isnt that what basically happened for the bank bailouts though?

      




     
    #17
    doc
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/29 23:27:50 (permalink)
    dazzz
     
     
    Its ridiculous to propose that people should just not pay their debt back, by all means don't lend to people because you don't think you won't get paid but to lend then just write it off is false economy. 


    Isnt that what basically happened for the bank bailouts though?

    No , the obligations where just passed on to another party i.e. the tax payer and currency holders and future generations but the debt will be paid. 
     
    Although I think he is right ,there will have to be a debt jubilee of some sort whether it exists at the same time as a  currency collapse or not is debatable but the outstanding debts can never be repayed .
    #18
    Rasputin
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    Re: revolution, capitalism etc 2014/10/30 09:12:31 (permalink)
    dazzz
     
     
    Its ridiculous to propose that people should just not pay their debt back, by all means don't lend to people because you don't think you won't get paid but to lend then just write it off is false economy. 


    Isnt that what basically happened for the bank bailouts though?



     
    Nope the taxpayer funded their relief... Which for the record I didn't agree with but was necessary in theory they are meant to pay it back, which in a round about way they do by creating jobs, liquidity and keeping this creaking ship afloat. What these jokers are talking about it total default and not paying a cent back, potentially when you have the means to at least contribute something towards it. Interestingly going back to the article Iceland let its banks fail and they have no rebounded strongly the downside is that unfortunately the UK is so pivotal to the financial economy of the EU and Tied to the USA that if it failed we would all be in a bad time. 
     
    I do not believe that we will ever see a debt cancellation policy because as it stands nobody really cares about it, its purely an empirical figure thats floating around its almost like a gambler being extended credit at a casino on account of his celebrity status i.e. he gets loaned the money to sit at the table and play he knows he can't win it back unless by massive good fortune (Generally in real world, war, death or finding raw commodities like oil) yet however he is fronted to play so as a result all his hangers on can come and watch and then employ the staff etc etc its all cyclical. 
     
    So if one aspect is removed the whole lot comes crashing down. 
     
    Its a ****ty system that has been built up over the years and now Joe Bloggs not he street is starting to question it because he/she perceives it as negative because of what they read in the media, all the while conveniently forgetting that they had the benefits of this system for nigh on 80 years which has allowed many people to move on and "better" their lives through credit in the forms of mortgages, Cars, even holidays. Had this system not been built up then we would still be holidaying in UK or the EU have a shocking infrastructure and really live in a poor country. 
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

    Ra Ra Rasputin lover of the Russian Queen, Ra Ra Ra Rasputin Russia's greatest love machine (Allegedly)
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