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shoulders

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clsterry
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2004/01/17 13:07:54 (permalink)

shoulders

i am 5'6 and about 150lbs, iam shaped but i dont have broad shoulders, i want to concentrate on my shoulders an back to create the classic v shape. i was thinking of training shoulders an back twice aweek on monday an thursday, but i was not going to train anything else, or just 1 exercise for legs an chest. wat would u all suggest, and the best exercises for it. my current workout for shoulders and back is

rowing(close grip)-4 sets
lat pulldown(alt grip)-3 sets
machine bent over rows-3sets

lateral raise-2sets
front raise-2sets
dumbbell press-3sets
shrugs-3sets
upright rows-2sets
#1

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    Genon
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/17 15:26:18 (permalink)
    Thats overtraining. All you need to effectively work your shoulders is maybe 3-5 sets of Standing military press. Try 5x5 standing mil press, you can use DB's to though.
    #2
    Raptor
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/17 17:10:58 (permalink)
    Bro do a basic 3/4 day split, you'll grow alot better off it. where in Wales are you?
    #3
    clsterry
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/17 17:24:35 (permalink)
    south wales,aberdare! i do a 3 vday split.
    mon-legs
    squats-3sets
    leg ex-3sets
    hamstring curls-2sets
    calve raises-2sets

    wed-shoulders+back
    as above

    fri-chest+arms
    incline bench-3sets
    dips-3sets
    cables-2sets
    dumbbell curls-3sets
    skullcrushers-3sets

    do you think i'm over training?
    #4
    clsterry
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/17 17:25:47 (permalink)
    forgot to ask where in wales u from?!
    #5
    GoldenArrow
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/17 17:47:17 (permalink)
    Hmm...back and shoulders...ok, how about..

    Deadlift
    Clean and press
    Bentover Row

    Dare you to try anything else after that...
    #6
    Raptor
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/18 13:54:59 (permalink)
    I live in Powys, Mid Wales. Problem with that routine is you dont have many solid compound mass building exercises. Try this...

    Monday
    Squat - 5 x 5reps
    Calve raise - 3 x 10reps

    Wednesday
    Bench Press - 3 x 5-8reps
    Dips - 3 x 5-8reps
    Shoulder Press - 3 x 5-8reps

    Friday
    Deadlift - 3 x 1-5reps
    Bent over row - 3 x 5-8reps
    Wide pullup - 3 x 5-8reps
    Barbell Curl - 3 x 5-8reps
    #7
    Genon
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/20 00:45:10 (permalink)
    Great routine by raptor.
    #8
    mikeyuk
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/20 10:27:02 (permalink)
    hi,
    i'm new to this site. i was wondering if any of you could help me with strengthening my shoulders? i recently strained my shoulder playing rugby, i stretched the ligaments and am in need of excersises to prevent this from happening again, i have been told to buy some pads and an elasticated shoulder support but was also trying to find weight excersises to hold my shoulder in place, could anyone help?
    #9
    uncle_peter
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/20 10:48:04 (permalink)
    The shoulder routine that I use now is really working for me.
    Some may not agree with this workout and claim that this is over training, but my workout has taken a good few years to find. I have tried the lesser sets but to no real benefit.

    1)Dumbell Shoulder presses
    2)Lateral raises
    3)Lying down cable cross overs (Rear deltoids)

    For these movements I do

    1 X 15 warmup
    3 X 10 working sets
    #10
    T-Bone123
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/20 14:14:13 (permalink)
    Mikeyuk; Welcome to MT!

    You'll probs want to start another thread with your question mate, youll get a better reply than on someone elses thread.

    #11
    Genon
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/20 16:52:05 (permalink)
    True but I'll reply anyways =]

    Put this shoulder routine in either on chest day or triceps day, or chest/triceps day... Whichever!

    3x8 Standing military press
    2x8 Side lateral raise

    Don't bother doing more... SHoulders are small muscles and they don't need much to be effectively worked, regardless what some people might say.
    #12
    mikeyuk
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/20 23:02:25 (permalink)
    cheers genon, t-bone i shall try that out
    #13
    Genon
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/20 23:51:31 (permalink)
    No... Actually that's not why. Just because going to failure on your first set can tear all your muscle fibers, doesn't necessarily mean you did a good job. Ya... You fatigued yourself, and there are many ways to do it. In a lot of peoples opinion low reps is the best way. Your theory, however interesting it may be, just does not make much sense to me. Doing 1 set of each exercise with reps between 8 and 12 will never make you gain as much mass/strength as a 5x5 program.
    #14
    PikeKing
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/21 09:52:57 (permalink)

    you cant recruit all the motor units with a single set
    #15
    PikeKing
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/21 12:27:27 (permalink)

    er did I say muscle fibres?
    #16
    Ironhead
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/21 12:34:20 (permalink)
    mate get off your high horse...you are sooo full of knowledgee...we are not worthy....
    #17
    Ironhead
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/21 12:41:05 (permalink)
    Go J5!!!
    #18
    Robert
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/21 13:09:55 (permalink)
    ok einstien, its my turn.

    quote:
    ponsy routines you come up with

    he helped come up with mine. and its fcuking great thanks.

    quote:
    i dont care about what units,,, any bloody units or fibres or what eva **** you like to come up with

    it is not us that has come up with it, we are simply repeating what the world leading and foremost physicians have come up with. and frankly, they know best, if you would like to refute that then i suggest a trip to the library and have a read* of some relevant litriture.
    *=reading and taking on board what you have LEARNED is very important, you should try it.

    quote:
    and motor units drive muscle fibres i know that but what i said is they are basically the same thing i.e. muscles


    really??? the first 5 words of that quote are correct. the rest is sh.te, you do not know that, because if you did you would not be in this debate/bol0cking now. and they are NOT basically rthe same thing moron, one is prt of the nervous system, the other is a collection of muscle cells. i suggest you seek out a 12-15y/o level biology book/teacher and verifiy this for your own good to avoid such crap from being spouted by yourself in the future.

    quote:
    hell i quess you have great gains and have never taken steds right?


    well, erm... yes.

    quote:
    ok i suppose its best off letting people who "think" they know what they are doing is best after all you must all be very happy with your progress because i see so many pro athletes here


    no it isn't, thats why we are trying to re-educate you. and there are soem very accomplished athletes here. i can think of 13 off the top of my head.

    quote:
    the weight stops moving how the hell can ANYTHING ANYWHERE NOT BE WORKED TO THE MAXIUM wheter motor units or what eva you want to call it it


    to reiterate what another member siad, the body is NOT a fcuking machine that has constituant parts that work independantly. it is like the matrix, everything is all interlinked for your own good. when ever you use skelatal muscle it falls into one of three catagories... #1 stabilizer,#2 antagaonist and #3 the one you are useing for the movement. take a bicep curl for example:

    the delts here are stabilizers, the biceps [among others] are the "working muscles" and the triceps, the antagonists. the brain, useing the nervous system as a vechile for its bidding, uses the power in the triceps to stop the biceps from working flat out, unless, as in the case of a life/death situation. this is because,as J5 rightly stated, you are heading for disaster if this did not happen. consider this, if you had truely worked your muscles to failure, why is it you can still walk/drive/have sex or masturbate in your case etc after a workout????? BECAUSE, THE MUSCLES HAVE GONE NO-WHERE NEAR TRUE FAILURE, AND YOU DON'T NEED TO EITHER.

    in short:

    STOP GIVING BEGGINERS SH1TE ADVICE, LEARN SOMETHING FIRST, THEN MOUTH OFF, AT LEATS THAT WAY YOU DON'T LOOK LIKE A TOSSER AND DON'T JEPARDISE THE SAFETY OF OTHER MEMBERS/HINDER THE PROGRESS OF OTHER MEMBERS BY GIVING THEM CRAP TRAINNG ADVICE.

    last note, you may well wish to use the SEARCH function after reading this, look up "OVERTRAIINING"

    regards
    rob
    #19
    GTM
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    RE: shoulders 2004/01/21 13:19:35 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Hardcore Trainer

    what a load of ****, 1 set DOES recruit ALL muslce fibers or why the hell does the weight stop moving!!!!!



    Because your muscle has depleted the supply of ATP .. which is what powers muscle contractions.. there are several mechanisms to ATP production.. most of them are very short term.. past that point there is no energy left in the muscle to do any work. Just because you have lifted a weight until you can't do another rep does not mean that you have "ripped up" all of the muscle fibres in the muscles. A damaged muscle fibre is significantly weaker than an undamaged one.. if what you say is true.. (ie that you have damaged all the muscle fibres in just one set).. then it would be impossible to lift the same weight again after a period of rest. There wouldn't be enough undamaged fibres left to enable you to make the lift. The reason you can do so .. is because the body has produced more ATP during that time which enables the muscles to power another set of contractions with nearly the same amount of force.

    GTM
    #20
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