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sust/tren with dbol kickstart

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anabolicathlete
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2005/07/27 20:49:16 (permalink)

sust/tren with dbol kickstart

day 1-60 250mg sust EOD
day 7- 47 75mg tren EOD
day 1-10 50mg dbol ED


how does this look, tren was started late. I was thinking of changing the sust to ED. Also am i correct in thinking that a couple of weeks in i will have MORE than 1g of test circulating as the long esters build up then release after about 4 weeks.

cheers
#1

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    Valley Fitness
    Play
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    RE: sust/tren with dbol kickstart 2005/07/28 09:18:36 (permalink)
    IMO i wouldnt increace the sus to one a day, your already doing tren shots eod and you really start to get sick of the shots, im just finishing a 21 day sus cycle. No due to the esters i think its after 3 weeks you have the most at 700mg , sure it was that.
    I also strated to get quite a few spots and i never normally get them. Plus the shots start to hurt like **** and run out of places to shoot. By day 15 i had so many sore sites it was hard to find places.

    HERES SOME INFO I WAS GIVEN -

    originally posted at A/R
    One of the most misunderstood ideals when it comes to Sustanon is how to properly
    use it in a cycle. There is no wrong way, but there is a best way to administer proper dosages so you can fully benefit from the esters in Sustanon. Sustanon was developed for the primary reason of hormone replacement, and because of the mix of esters most patients only needed one shot a month to keep their hormone levels balanced. Because of this design, the bodybuilder will not receive proper doseages at once or twice a week injections. Your blood levels will fluctuate up and down continuously, which is not what you want while on a cycle. You want stable levels to give your body the best chance it can have to build plenty of muscle. All test is the same, but only once the ester is removed. People that say test is test are wrong unless you are assuming that the ester has already been removed. I have had plenty of different results from the different tests I have used, as well as I am sure you have too. The secret to making sus work correctly, is timing the esters so the blood levels do not fluctuate.

    I will assume that everyone knows how an ester works and why one is added to the parent testosterone. With sustanon, you have 4 esters: 30mg of prop 60mg of phenylprop 60mg of isocaproate 100mg of deconate Combined to give you 250mg. Now everyone knows for themselves how much test they should take due to previous cycles or no cycles at all. Let's take each ester and see how long they will stay active in the body.
    30mg of prop--Prop needs to be injected at least every other day to get the full benefits of the test. I think every third day is a little too long to wait, although some people may disagree. Now let's say you are doing a prop only cycle and injecting 30mg twice a week. You can see already that is a waste of gear. If you inject 30mg of prop twice a week you are totally wasting your time. You will NOT grow off of this, so you can basically take sus and knock it down to 220mg an amp if you are injecting once or twice a week.

    60 mg of phenylprop--Phenylprop is not that much different than prop. You can get away with injecting the phenylprop ester every third day. Anyone that has taken nandrolone with a phenylprop ester knows that it is shorter acting and must be injected twice a week (for example, *******'s powder). If injected twice a week, then let's even cushion the amount, you will have all 120 mg in one week.

    To recap, so far this is what you get the first week---180 mg of test in your system. If you ask me that was a waste of two amps. That is barely enough to supress the axis, and that is about all you will have happen if you inject 180mg of test per week. Now let's look at the longer acting esters in sus.

    60mg of Isocaproate--Isocaproate will give you a duration of about a week before it is let go. This is not bad, but at 60 mg you are still not getting enough test to make it worth the time.
    100mg of Deconate--Here is the daddy of the four esters. This is the same ester that is used in Deca-Durabolin. The deconate ester should really average out at 2 weeks, but has been said to last up to 3. This ester was added at a 100mg dose to balance out the quicker acting esters used in sustanon.

    If we review one more time, we can see roughly how much test we will have in our body per week when we use sus, and hopefully you can see it is very low. You can pretty much take out the prop and phenylprop until about week 3 or 4, because once the other esters release the test and it gets time to build up in the system, the prop and phenylprop is useless. Not until around week six are you going to get your test levels high enough to do any good, and if you are on a 10 week cycle and start tapering week 8, then your test have been only relatively high for about 2-3 weeks. Call me crazy, but that is not at all what I want in a cycle. Every test cycle should be started high to hit those receptors hard, and I don't even taper at the end (but that is a different story).

    The numbers that BIGDAWG and I worked on basically show that your test levels will never at one time be stable for more that a couple of weeks. Why do you think that people say they have less bloat on sus and less sides. There is so little of the short acting test in your system at one time that it is impossible to get any bloat or side effects at all. So you ask, well what is the best way to take sus then? First, I would answer don't buy it. If you really want to use a 4 blend test then buy some of the old omna (not the new ones), they have more shorter acting tests in them and the blood levels will stay more equal. If you don't believe me, ask anyone that has used the old omna and they will tell you they got quite a bit of bloat from it. Reason being is the shorter acting esters in the omna build up your blood levels quicker, hence you have the bloat factor. If someone doesn't like my first answer, then I will give them a second, "inject the sus everyday or at the least every other day." I usually get the "wholly @#%$, that's crazy!!!" answer. I usually tell them back, no it's not crazy, it's science. The actual science of sus combined with a bodybuilder's needs equal injecting every day. People seem to forget about the esters and think they are injecting all of 1750mg each week and getting every mg of it. Trust me folks, I am not talking about injecting 7 amps a week for 10 weeks, I am suggesting injecting an amp a day for 3 weeks, and letting the esters do thier work after that. When you crunch the numbers, for the first two weeks you are really only getting the prop, phenylprop, and a little of the isocaproate. Maybe about 700-750 mg for the first two weeks, and for weeks after that when all of the isocaproate and deconate kick in you will stay aroung 600-800mg for weeks following the first couple. You have a perfect taper, if you are into that, and stable test levels. If you go to eod, it will vary a bit, but not enough to really make too much of a difference. Start off the cycle with 5 weeks of dbol while using the sus, and when you are done with the sustanon, then immediately start injecting two anabolics like eq and deca, or deca and primo/winny. This is a cycle that a lot of the pros are using called front end loading with an anabolic taper. I guinea pigged this idea when BIGDAWG and I were discussing it many months back, and **** it was a really good cycle. Not as good as 1000mg of aratest a week, but still a pretty good cycle. I have cycled sus/omna both ways, and trained relatively the same with the same kind of diet. The difference in the two cycles were like night and day, about a 15-17 pound difference, and two amps of omna a week was my first cycle too. You know, the one you are supposed to grow the most off of because of the virgin receptors. So test may be test, but you will not get the same results from every ester out there if you dont know how to time them. If you are thinking of a sus/omna cycle, give this a try. I promise you will not be disappointed, and you just may thank me and DAWG later.
    #2
    anabolicathlete
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    RE: sust/tren with dbol kickstart 2005/07/28 09:59:47 (permalink)
    cheers play, your advice is sound, im 200 lbs at 5,11 21 years old, assuming diet is good and training and rest are good, can you see me packing on decent mass with this?

    cheers
    #3
    Play
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    RE: sust/tren with dbol kickstart 2005/07/28 10:06:41 (permalink)
    Yeh i did 500mg test enth and same tren and dbol and got really good soild gains, its been my fav cycle i have done.
    #4
    anabolicathlete
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    RE: sust/tren with dbol kickstart 2005/07/28 10:14:16 (permalink)
    what do u reckon to the apex tren?
    #5
    Play
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    RE: sust/tren with dbol kickstart 2005/07/28 10:22:39 (permalink)
    To be honest i cant remember what mine was it was a bit ago
    #6
    screech
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    RE: sust/tren with dbol kickstart 2005/07/28 14:38:28 (permalink)
    anabolicathlete - is your tren by Apex ??

    Ive just ran it, with sust and oxys....got good gains. 1st time i used Tren or any apex product, seemed ok to me mate
    #7
    anabolicathlete
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    RE: sust/tren with dbol kickstart 2005/07/28 14:46:26 (permalink)
    yeah its apex trenbol, just had my second dose of it, smashed the ****er into my traps
    #8
    screech
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    RE: sust/tren with dbol kickstart 2005/07/28 16:01:20 (permalink)
    ouchhhhhh !!!!



    never used traps as a site before, only glutes, shoulders and quads!
    #9
    anabolicathlete
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    RE: sust/tren with dbol kickstart 2005/07/28 20:46:18 (permalink)
    what about increasing the tren to 75mg ED?
    #10
    Play
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    RE: sust/tren with dbol kickstart 2005/07/29 09:28:02 (permalink)
    You will get frekin good gains just of eod , i know i did was spot on
    #11
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