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warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers)

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Weaselboy
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2011/03/15 21:06:21 (permalink)
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warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers)

hello
 
i made a threads a weeks back saying how i have been consantly tired and it felt as if i hadnt slept for days and felt ill all the time
 
i ended up getting a blood test and the results come back today
 
everything was fine except my kidney function, apparantly since ive been using serious mass weight gainer there must be something in it that my body doesnt like as i am getting towards kidney failure, my function was that of a 95 year old my doctor said and she asked what drugs/ supplements or anything like that i have been taking recently
 
i told her how ive been on serious mass for the last 5-6 months which is when i noticed the tirednes, she said there is something in it which my body does not like and it is runing my kidneys and if id let if much longer serious damage could of happened
 
im not saying this is for everything i am just telling people what has happened to me and if you feel consantly tired/ sick/ hungover even with enough food rest and sleep id get checked

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    indie
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 00:17:19 (permalink)
    Unless it is tainted with something, ie melamine. I very much doubt it is the serious mass. Take a look at what else you might do, do you drink for example?
     
    Did you have any alcohol in the days leading up to your test. Drinking a day or even a few days before a blood test will make the test results look as if you have serious kidney problems.
    Al
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 07:26:50 (permalink)
    Alcohol before renal function test will not affect the results although if you have a hangover it may cause dehydration.
    Osagi
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 08:14:48 (permalink)
    That's some awesome detective work there from your GP.
     
    The ingredients of Serious Mass;
     
    Ingredients: Maltodextrin, Protein Blend (Whey Protein Concentrate, Calcium Caseinate, Egg Albumen, Sweet Dairy Whey), Cocoa (Processed with Alkali), Creatine Monohydrate, L-Glutamine, Glutamine Peptides, Natural and Artificial Flavor, Vitamin and Mineral Blend (diPotassium Phosphate, Magnesium Aspartate, diCalcium Phosphate, Calcium Citrate, Ascorbic Acid, Niacinamide, Zinc Citrate, Beta Carotene, d-Calcium Pantothenate, d-alpha Tocopheryl Succinate, Selenomethionine, Copper Gluconate, Ferrous Fumarate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Chromium Polynicotinate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Molybdenum Amino Acid Chelate, Cholecalciferol, Potassium Iodide, Cyanocobalamin), Acesulfame Potassium, Lecithin, Medium Chain Triglycerides.
     
    A quick look at the label and ingredients list would ave revealed to here that there is NOTHING in this product which can lead to kidney failure.
     
    Therefore if I was you, I'd be getting my ass back to this doctor taking with you a copy of the ingredients list and saying "Doc, I'm not happy with your first evaluation, here's the ingredients list for that product I've been taking, tell me which one of those ingredients has led me almost to the point of kidney failure".
     
    Following that, you may end up with a proper diagnosis, which is what you want rather than a clumsy brush off and attempt to scare monger. 
     
    One thing you could point out to her - the product contains a small amount (~1g) of Creatine Monohydrate per serving. When taking creatine, blood tests can show an increased level of creatinine, which is a marker that doctors use to measure kidney health. Raised creatinine as a result of a damage or inproperly working kidneys is bad. Raised creatinine levels as a result of creatine supplementation however is no problem at all. Maybe explain that to your doctor on the off chance she has been living under a rock!
     
    Indeed as a result of this discussion you may discover that your doc retracts her initial diagnosis of 'kidney failure'. That would be awkward for her, wouldn't it?
     
    But again, there's nothing in this product that will cause kidney problems.
     
    Osagi
    post edited by Osagi - 2011/03/16 08:17:13
    iaink
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 09:09:28 (permalink)
    What Osagi said.
     
    I am not sure why medical Dr. would suggest the above without seeing the ingrediants list of a product at the very least?
    post edited by iaink - 2011/03/16 09:38:48
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    m118
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 09:34:53 (permalink)
    OP,
     
    we're just guessing as to whats wrong. can you get the actual values?
     
    plus, what were your values before you started serious mass?
     
    bearing in mind how many people use it, ive not heard of a single case of it inducing renal failure. it would seem that
    1: as suggested about re: creatinine and/or dehydration, and excess protein can cause increase urea levels... which is also suggestive in normal people of problems
    2: your kidneys were on their way to failing anyway
    3: something else is causing these abnormal results
     
    Finally, would seem a bit unfair to warn everyone against serious mass (and ~all gainers) based on this situation. I understand it must be worrying, but there are so many variables to consider before labelling serious mass at fault.
    post edited by m118 - 2011/03/16 09:38:41
    Mobster
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 09:51:39 (permalink)
    What Osagi said

     
    kaldog
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 12:50:28 (permalink)
    iaink
    I am not sure why medical Dr. would suggest the above without seeing the ingrediants list of a product at the very least?

     
    like i said in the thread about a guy getting a 400e fine for glassing shane278
     
    this sort of thing doesnt come as a surprise anymore and is more seen as the norm. scare mongering and ignorance from medical professionals when it comes to bodybuilding and bodybuilding nutrition/supps.
     
    would be interested to see what the dr would say to the op if he returned with the ingredients list of 'serious mass', though i imagine he would just be fobbed off with more rubbish

    Current goals: get back in the game
     
    CitizenKane
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 12:53:08 (permalink)
    I find it baffling that to be a doctor you really do need to be very smart and put yourself through years and years of hardcore study and academia and work experience and the medical profession is generally known as a profession reserved for the very intelligent... yet when it comes to anything to do with training or supplements or sports nutrition all doctors suddenly become complete morons and give out diagnoses like this.

    "Be adequate"
     
    m118
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 13:06:03 (permalink)
    CitizenKane

    I find it baffling that to be a doctor you really do need to be very smart and put yourself through years and years of hardcore study and academia and work experience and the medical profession is generally known as a profession reserved for the very intelligent... yet when it comes to anything to do with training or supplements or sports nutrition all doctors suddenly become complete morons and give out diagnoses like this.


    because in med school you're taught about the more common diseases/conditions, eg asthma, MI etc... and even then still the more obscure disease/conditions too. now, the no of people in the country who present with supplement related problems (excluding steroids) is so infrequent that is not worthwhile even discussing it during med school.
     
    to say they become complete morons is OTT IMO. I would say that some are naive when it comes to sports supps.
    post edited by m118 - 2011/03/16 13:23:27
    CitizenKane
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 13:13:47 (permalink)
    m118

    CitizenKane

    I find it baffling that to be a doctor you really do need to be very smart and put yourself through years and years of hardcore study and academia and work experience and the medical profession is generally known as a profession reserved for the very intelligent... yet when it comes to anything to do with training or supplements or sports nutrition all doctors suddenly become complete morons and give out diagnoses like this.


    because in med school you're taught about the more common diseases/conditions, eg asthma, MI etc... and even then still the more obscure disease/conditions too. now, the no of people in the country who present with supplement related problems (excluding steroids) is so infrequent that is not worthwhile even discussing it during med school.

    to say they become complete morons is OTT IMO. I would say that some are naive when it comes to sports supps.

     
    I'm not saying they are complete morons, I meant they act like complete morons when faced with questions like this and I find it strange because they seem to display the same kind of ignorance that the mainstream public do towards bodybuidling and weight training, which they shouldn't do because doctors are generally much smarter than average (this is my experience).
     
    It's nothing to do with learning about it in medical school or not, it's common sense. How can you base your diagnosis on a product the ingredients of which you don't even know? Surely this doctor's common sense should come into play far sooner than anything she learned in medical school?

    "Be adequate"
     
    m118
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 13:15:47 (permalink)
    CitizenKane

    m118

    CitizenKane

    I find it baffling that to be a doctor you really do need to be very smart and put yourself through years and years of hardcore study and academia and work experience and the medical profession is generally known as a profession reserved for the very intelligent... yet when it comes to anything to do with training or supplements or sports nutrition all doctors suddenly become complete morons and give out diagnoses like this.


    because in med school you're taught about the more common diseases/conditions, eg asthma, MI etc... and even then still the more obscure disease/conditions too. now, the no of people in the country who present with supplement related problems (excluding steroids) is so infrequent that is not worthwhile even discussing it during med school.

    to say they become complete morons is OTT IMO. I would say that some are naive when it comes to sports supps.


    I'm not saying they are complete morons, I meant they act like complete morons when faced with questions like this and I find it strange because they seem to display the same kind of ignorance that the mainstream public do towards bodybuidling and weight training, which they shouldn't do because doctors are generally much smarter than average (this is my experience).

    It's nothing to do with learning about it in medical school or not, it's common sense. How can you base your diagnosis on a product the ingredients of which you don't even know? Surely this doctor's common sense should come into play far sooner than anything she learned in medical school?

     
    Well, assume you're a 30+ year old GP with no experience of supplements. A young guy comes in, with poor renal function, and says 'ive been taking the product called serious mass so many x/day'. Its only logical to assume that he's probably overdosing on it.
     
    Now, we have no idea what OP told the doc ie did he sway the convo to blame the product or was it the doc, or a mutual conclusion?
     
    We dont know what OP's renal function was like pre-serious mass, nor do we know how much he was consuming and whether he was simply dehydrated when the test was done.
     
    However, it is unfair to say the doc becomes a complete moron.
    post edited by m118 - 2011/03/16 13:25:19
    CitizenKane
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 13:24:46 (permalink)
    m118
    Well, assume you're a 30+ year old GP with no experience of supplements. A young guy comes in, with poor renal function, and says 'ive been taking the product called serious mass so many x/day'. Its only logical to assume that he's probably overdosing on it.

     
    I wouldn't say that's a logical conclusion, I'd say that's specious reasoning. She is overlooking any other factors and jumping straight to concluding that it is the supplement in question that's causing the problem.
     
    I would suggest that the real reason the OP is 'constantly tired' is because his diet is absolutely terrible: http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/fb.ashx?m=4314200 and when combined with a stressful weightlifting regimen, is bound to exhaust him. The kidney issue has to be caused by something else because as others have said there is nothing in that product that causes kidney failure. The doctor is assuming that there is a causal link between his kidney function and his complaining of being tired, which would appear to be erroneous now, and assumption is the mother of all f.uck ups, especially in medicine!

    "Be adequate"
     
    m118
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 13:34:20 (permalink)
    CitizenKane

    m118
    Well, assume you're a 30+ year old GP with no experience of supplements. A young guy comes in, with poor renal function, and says 'ive been taking the product called serious mass so many x/day'. Its only logical to assume that he's probably overdosing on it.


    I wouldn't say that's a logical conclusion, I'd say that's specious reasoning. She is overlooking any other factors and jumping straight to concluding that it is the supplement in question that's causing the problem.

    I would suggest that the real reason the OP is 'constantly tired' is because his diet is absolutely terrible: http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/fb.ashx?m=4314200 and when combined with a stressful weightlifting regimen, is bound to exhaust him. The kidney issue has to be caused by something else because as others have said there is nothing in that product that causes kidney failure. The doctor is assuming that there is a causal link between his kidney function and his complaining of being tired, which would appear to be erroneous now, and assumption is the mother of all f.uck ups, especially in medicine!

    Notes:
    1: pre serious mass renal function would be ideal
    2: we still dont know how much OP was drinking and consuming of serious mass
    3: how we presented eg 'the only thing different is tiredness and the only thing that has changed since is ive been drinking this serious mass'
    4: we dont actually know the bloods results still
    5: in real life, assumptions are made everyday based on the clinical picture.
    Dr. Griffiths
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 14:49:56 (permalink)
    CitizenKane

    m118
    Well, assume you're a 30+ year old GP with no experience of supplements. A young guy comes in, with poor renal function, and says 'ive been taking the product called serious mass so many x/day'. Its only logical to assume that he's probably overdosing on it.


    I wouldn't say that's a logical conclusion, I'd say that's specious reasoning. She is overlooking any other factors and jumping straight to concluding that it is the supplement in question that's causing the problem.

    I would suggest that the real reason the OP is 'constantly tired' is because his diet is absolutely terrible: http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/fb.ashx?m=4314200 and when combined with a stressful weightlifting regimen, is bound to exhaust him. The kidney issue has to be caused by something else because as others have said there is nothing in that product that causes kidney failure. The doctor is assuming that there is a causal link between his kidney function and his complaining of being tired, which would appear to be erroneous now, and assumption is the mother of all f.uck ups, especially in medicine!


    Whether it's a logical conclusion or not isn't the point, faced with someone with apparent borderline kidney failure it isn't acceptable to assume or conclude anything. A diagnosis has to be reached on the basis of further tests which the GP should have sent the op for.
     
    What if his abnormal kidney values are due to an underlying condition?
     
    But anyway the "abnormal" values are probably due to the creatine content of the product or due to his higher than average muscle mass since more muscle = more creatinine produced, so I wouldn´t worry too much but it is ridiculous to blame the mass gainer without even knowing what is in it.

    m118
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 14:56:18 (permalink)
    Dr. Griffiths

    Whether it's a logical conclusion or not isn't the point, faced with someone with apparent borderline kidney failure it isn't acceptable to assume or conclude anything. A diagnosis has to be reached on the basis of further tests which the GP should have sent the op for.

    What if his abnormal kidney values are due to an underlying condition?

    But anyway the "abnormal" values are probably due to the creatine content of the product or due to his higher than average muscle mass since more muscle = more creatinine produced, so I wouldn´t worry too much but it is ridiculous to blame the mass gainer without even knowing what is in it.

     
    1:once again, we dont know his actual values so we cant comment if it is slightly poor, worrying, borderline, or full blodwn renal disease.
     
    2: as i said above, without previous bloods we dont know what he renal function was like pre-serious mass
     
    3: if he actually had borderline renal failure then he wouldnt be managed by his GP, he would have been referred ASAP to either A+E or a renal specialist.
     
    4: again, without the values, we dont know what exactly was so worrying in the values
     
    5: again,  perhaps OP directed the consultation to place blame with the serious mass, OR the GP blamed it, OR the OP is now excessively worried and exaggerating.
     
     
    indie
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 17:13:28 (permalink)
    Al

    Alcohol before renal function test will not affect the results although if you have a hangover it may cause dehydration.


    Even one alcoholic drink will skew blood test results to some extent, including liver and kidney function tests.
    post edited by indie - 2011/03/16 17:14:44
    Weaselboy
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 21:06:09 (permalink)
    i had my blood test on friday and had not touched alchohol since the previous friday so 7 days i also drink about 3 litres of water every day
     
    my diet is 95% clean with tuna. chicken. whole meal bread. mayonaise. fruit. whey. almonds (no longer eating the crap from the thread posted aswell)
     
    somenone mentioned creatinin which i remember her talking something about.
     
    about serious mass i started bulking from around start of october when i remember i was fine from around that time because i broke my wrist over summer and i was not going gym. however my diet was still similar as i wanted to keep the muscle i have. i was taking 2 serious masses per day everyday on the bulk (very rarely 3 if i missed a meal or was in a rush. however these were only half servings so it only equaled 1 FULL sercing or 1.5 per day max )
     
    the test results all came back fine except my kidney function was red and was at 129? she said normal is around 60.
     
    after all this ive been thinking today a few things that have changed that could also be the problem
     
    since december i have been in full time work after being a student for the last 3 and a half years = not used to work
    i used to take alot of different multi vitamins along with serious mass which equaled probably 200% daily on most or more = problems?
    after years of eating all the crap its finally caught up on me?
    edit: had glandular fever for the first term of uni
    STDs aswell and need to be tested can they have anything to do with it? 
    sorry for starting all the questions i just wanted to warn people as she told me it was deffintely that so i just wanted to let people know if they were having any side effects i had to get checked out
     
    its a bit worrying now that its probably not the serious mass because that means its something else
     
    i always feel tired. today at work i nearly fell asleep and again when i got home until half 8
    i just dont feel right in my head for the last few months. no mood swings or nothing though
    i have had an annoying on off headache for the last few days
     
    thanks
     
    post edited by Weaselboy - 2011/03/16 21:39:00
    indie
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/16 21:26:17 (permalink)
    The change from the student lifestyle to worklife, can cause those sort of symptoms for some starting the 9 to 5 rat race, no more getting up at lunchtime for afternoon lectures
    ryzo
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    Re:warning on serious mass (maybe all weight gainers) 2011/03/17 11:38:34 (permalink)
    Personally I've used many various types of mass gainers, complex gainers, the lot; never have I had or heard of anyone having issues with them. As mentioned above, sounds like an easy, quick, diagnosis with this mass product being the scape goat.
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