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what do u think of a 5-day split.....

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mark101
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2004/02/28 10:44:05 (permalink)
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what do u think of a 5-day split.....

Hi i use to train on 3 days per week...

Back/bi's
Chest/tri's
Shoulders/Legs.

I have now changed to a 4 day split as i feel it does more for my smaller muscle groups. I have not added any exercises and i now do..

Day 1-Shoulders (4 exercises total)
Day 2-Bi's/tri's (3 ex on each)
Day 3-Legs (4 exercises)
Day 4-Chest (4 ex)
Day 5-Light cardio (hardly counts, gentle bike ride or something)
Day 6-Back (4ex)
Day 7-Sport or light cardio

I find with this i can be in the gym and out again in about 30 mins each time....but i really feel i have worked the particular muscle really hard.
Am i still going to overtrain on this?????????? (even though i only spend a short time in the gym each time)
Any advice is really appreciated....I have tried other routines but this seems very effective... as i am looking to bulk.
#1

19 Replies Related Threads

    MikeyFive
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/02/28 10:56:53 (permalink)
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    Try it and see. You'll probably be alright for a couple of weeks but then you might start feeling the effects of overtraining.

    M5
    #2
    mark101
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/02/28 10:59:15 (permalink)
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    ok thanks...i suppose there is no strict rule that applies to everyone...i think its a matter of trial and error for most of it.
    #3
    Frankie NY
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/02/28 16:03:18 (permalink)
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    mark101:

    I won't give you my usual comments about how training more than 3 days a week is counterproductive. I'll just ask: "Even if you love lifting weights, who wants to go to the gym 5 days a week?"

    There's a lot to be said for really wanting to go into the gym and tear it up. I think most people that lift 2 or 3 days a week tend to have this sentiment more than those that lift 4 or 5 days a week.
    #4
    mark101
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/02/28 17:47:17 (permalink)
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    The only reason i am thinking of doing the 5 day split is that i go right past my gym every night....all i have done is spread my original plan of exercises from 3days to 5. I spend much less time in the gym each visit and i can do a good short hard workout which takes no time at all.
    Will this still lead to overtraining????? I have tried many other routines 2-3 day splits but i seem to really enjoy a 5 day split as i can work hard for a short time. But if this is going to be counter-productive should i find another routine?
    #5
    JohnOvManchester
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/02/28 21:03:16 (permalink)
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    do a 3 day split and just cardio on the other non lifting days.
    5 days of weights is alot
    #6
    Robert
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/02/29 15:54:16 (permalink)
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    do you think that if you do a 5 day split you aren't comprmising recovery of synergists/stabilizers, like lats when benching, delts when benching, biceps when DLing, back when doing legs, forarms on everything etc etc...?
    rob
    #7
    Robert
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/02/29 16:09:48 (permalink)
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    you don't sound dumb, you just didn't understand recovery and the fact your body works as one, using antagonists, synergists, stabilizers as well as the muscle worked in question.

    if you did like this guy does, and train your bi's and tris on tuesday, how are yoyu going to be recovered enough to put full effort into your legs [dedlifting hit biceps and forarms hard] the next day, and your chest the day after.

    i mean, if i did shoulders on monday, how am i supposed to train chest 3 days later with my triceps getting hammered inbetween? the only way you could do that would be use isolations all the time, not good.
    do your lats+traps not get DOMS/fatiuged after benching? if like mine and everyone elses they do, then how you going to do your "back" on Saturday having benched on Thursday?
    rob
    rob
    #8
    mark101
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/02/29 16:18:43 (permalink)
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    I have put legs inbetween arms and chest so i could recover....i literally concentrate on my legs....i do deadlifts on a back day. I do a lot of isolation exercises..

    Why are these not good?
    #9
    T-Bone123
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/02/29 16:52:44 (permalink)
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    If you do that routine make sure you eat loads and got boatloads of sleep every night, this will maximise your recovery, you'll need it.
    #10
    Robert
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/02/29 16:53:27 (permalink)
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    the moral of the story is this:

    the body is a system, a complex arragement of bone and skeletal muscle [along with some other crap:)], it has evolved to work in a very efficent manner. this manner involves recruiting muscles to help others, so when you walk up the stairs carring a heavy object, things happen as one: your hips move at the same time you calves contract at the same time your trunk stabilizes your whole body at the same time as ...blah blah [ala human]

    what does not happen is your quads extend your knee joint, then your hips flex, then your claves contract etc etc blah blah... [ala robot] have you ever seen anyone do oe of those silly robot dances, funny isn't it, because its unatural, thats how your body is working when you do isolations.

    so when you wok a single part of your body at any one time, your brain [part of the nervous system - a commonly neglected and overlooked intricacy that controls this system], says, "what the fcuk? why am i doing this? heeeeeeeeeelp" it don't like it, and for good reason. you are not designed to work as little peices of a machine that work independantly, you are like a shoal of fish, one big ass complex system based on very simple rules:

    if something contracts, it needs a stabilizing muscle, so the joint you aren't moving doesn't move, it needs an antagonist, so you cannot over extend your joint/put too much force through it and in the case of something like a DB bench press there are literally tens of synergists helping you out. by doing this the body minimises injury potential and helps keep things in balence, strength and flexabitity wise.

    isolations do not alow the brain to control the body as it would in a natural enviroment, compound do this job better.

    for example, you do deadlifts on back day, fine. but do you not use your legs when deadlifting?
    you do your triceps the day after shoulders, now, unless you can eliminate your triceps completely when doing your shoulders, you are comprimising your recovery, to do this you would have to use soley isolations, but they are not good as they create inbalences and increase injury risk. thats why isolations are bad and 5-6 day routines are bad.

    you would do beter to structure your workouts thus:

    muscles that work in harmony could be grouped together for increased efficeny, such as calves, quads, chest, shoulders, triceps OR biceps, lats, traps, spinal errectors, hamstrings, gluteals.

    so when you do somehting like push a car down the road, your calves, quads, hamstrings, gluteals, triceps, abs, lowerback, chest and delts are all trying hard to work together, why break them apart in a workout?
    #11
    mark101
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/02/29 16:55:18 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by T-Bone123

    If you do that routine make sure you eat loads and got boatloads of sleep every night, this will maximise your recovery, you'll need it.



    ok thanks very much for the advice...it is one i have been trying for the last couple of weeks....i really enjoy the short intense workouts...but i am very wary of overtraining. I suppose try and see...if i am overtraining....change it.
    #12
    Robert
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/02/29 16:57:12 (permalink)
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    ^^^rob
    #13
    mark101
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/02/29 17:03:56 (permalink)
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    Sorry Rob i replied to the other before reading yours.....

    I understand what you are saying. I will have to take a read through some more routines and try to find one that is going to work for me.
    I enjoy my current sessions but if you believe it is not going to be of benefit for me then i am really wasting my time which could be better used...thanks for the advice...what would you suggest to someone like myself as a workout.. i dont mean an entire plan, just a typical split that i could use...the only reason i changed from 3-5 was i find exercising bi's and tri's almost impossible after i have done a back or chest workout. Any suggestions are really appreciated....

    p.s. (to rob) what does the up arrows on your last message mean???
    #14
    GoldenArrow
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/02/29 17:19:47 (permalink)
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    From the Old School Strength Forum, Gary Valentine...I found this very sensible and inspirational advice.
    quote:
    as i said, i lift as heavy as i can each workout. usually that means that once per week i break some kind of training record, once per week is an ok workout, and one stinks, so i just stretch and go light.

    the secret is recuperation! yes i've said it before, but on the advice of joe mills, i never lift more than 3 times per week (3 times per week is ideal, twice is better than 4, once is better than 5), and i never, ever, lift 2 days in a row. this is full body explosive stuff, not "back and bi" type if split. i dont understand, if you have any kind of worthwhile workout, how you can come back within 24 hours and do it again! once you understand everything that changes and remodels from a workout, youwill see what i mean. hydration, electrolyte replacement, bone remodeling, tendon and ligament strengtheneing, muscle protein growth, hormone regenration, etc it just takes time. it simply cannot be rushed. adequate recuperation allows constant improvement, and thats how it should be. i see many lifters caught up in certain workouts, but not focussing on the overall process of getting stronger. that means just as much effort into eating right and resting up, strange as that may sound, as in the workouts. and for me, no alcohol. it halts protein synthesis in the liver, i just dont have room for it. there are much healthier ways to relax.

    thats it, train hard, rest, eat right, and you'll find out how much you can lift. how that compares to others is really an after thought. dont waste energy on anything else. there's simply no feeling like walking up to a maximum weight for you at any point in time, giving it all youve got, and nailing it. keep focussed on that, every lift, every workout.


    http://pub26.ezboard.com/foldschoolstrengthtraining70757frm1.showMessage?topicID=5854.topic
    #15
    mark101
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/03/01 02:57:24 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by SAFFABOY

    quote:
    Originally posted by Robert

    you don't sound dumb, you just didn't understand recovery and the fact your body works as one, using antagonists, synergists, stabilizers as well as the muscle worked in question.

    if you did like this guy does, and train your bi's and tris on tuesday, how are yoyu going to be recovered enough to put full effort into your legs [dedlifting hit biceps and forarms hard] the next day, and your chest the day after.

    i mean, if i did shoulders on monday, how am i supposed to train chest 3 days later with my triceps getting hammered inbetween? the only way you could do that would be use isolations all the time, not good.
    do your lats+traps not get DOMS/fatiuged after benching? if like mine and everyone elses they do, then how you going to do your "back" on Saturday having benched on Thursday?
    rob
    rob



    Thanks for that Rob!!

    Its like you opened a new door for me!! I finally realise how easy it actually is to overtrain (especially the smaller muscle groups)

    Cheers

    SB



    I did not realise overtraining was that easy either....i am always so concerned not to undertrain.
    #16
    Robert
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/03/01 09:39:39 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by mark101

    Sorry Rob i replied to the other before reading yours.....

    I understand what you are saying. I will have to take a read through some more routines and try to find one that is going to work for me.
    I enjoy my current sessions but if you believe it is not going to be of benefit for me then i am really wasting my time which could be better used...thanks for the advice...what would you suggest to someone like myself as a workout.. i dont mean an entire plan, just a typical split that i could use...the only reason i changed from 3-5 was i find exercising bi's and tri's almost impossible after i have done a back or chest workout. Any suggestions are really appreciated....

    p.s. (to rob) what does the up arrows on your last message mean???



    hi mate,

    basically i would go for a 1-3 day splt. have you noticed how all of your muscles either allow you to push something, or pull it?

    i would go for something like:
    1 day split
    front squat 3x5
    deadlift 3x5
    chins 3x5
    dips 3x5
    overhead press/farmers walk if you need it 3x5
    weighted situps 3x5
    rest until recovered, then repeat [usualy 3-5days]

    2 day split
    front squat 3x5
    overhead press 3x5
    dip/DB bench 3x5
    weighted situps 3x5

    deadlift 3x5
    chin 3x5
    row/BB curl 3x5
    hanging leg raise 3x5
    farmers walk 3x5

    and a three day split could easily be drawn up by appling the legs/pugh/pull technique.

    i would base a three day split around squats, benching/dips and DL's

    i personally follow a 1 day split, don't be afraid of lower volume/frequency, its not always a good thing to have less volume, but its not a bad thing either.

    hope that helps mate
    rob
    #17
    mark101
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/03/01 09:47:07 (permalink)
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    hi rob, thanks for the advice. currently all my exercises are isolation and i think it may be a good shock to my body to change to this "push" and "pull" technique.
    thanks again. I will try it this week and see how it goes, i will try the 1 day split first. thanks.

    p.s. what do the arrows on your other message mean?
    #18
    Robert
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/03/01 12:48:51 (permalink)
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    i think you will find the 1 day split very challenging. i do. the arrrows are there as a sort of joke, i ALWAYS sign my posts "rob" at the end. the one above that is the first one in 1610 posts that isn't.
    rob
    #19
    mark101
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    RE: what do u think of a 5-day split..... 2004/03/01 15:56:41 (permalink)
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    i thought the arrows were for me to look at something that is why i was so interested. anyway thanks for the advice....i the next hour or so i am going to go to the gym and give the 1 day split a go. thanks again.
    #20
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